Resources: Learn More

• “Uniquely Human: A Different Way of Seeing Autism,” by Barry M. Prizant, Ph.D.
• “The Aspie Teen’s Survival Guide,” by J.D. Kraus

Things to Think About

• Rather than a linear scale between “high-functioning” and “low-functioning,” the autism spectrum should be viewed as a pie, with its sections representing various symptoms and their intensity.
• You are your child’s greatest advocate. Remember to communicate with school officials about creating a comfortable classroom environment for your child to function in.

About the Guest

Lucas Mitzel provides therapy for children, adolescents, and adults, ages 5 - 30. He believes building relationships with clients is the most important piece of successful therapy. He loves what he does, because it allows him to walk next to people he would never have met had he chosen a different profession, as they work to make amazing life changes. He has the honor of meeting people at their worst, all while watching them grow into the people they’ve always wanted to be.

Falan Johnson provides therapy for children, adolescents, and young adults ages 7 - 25. She believes it is her job to meet clients where they’re at and provide services specific to their needs. Falan is honored to be a positive change agent in the lives of people who come into her office. She believes in a holistic approach, not only considering the person as an individual but as part of a greater working system. Falan earned her master’s degree in Social Work from the University of North Dakota. She is certified in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR).

Transcript
Autism in Children & Adolescents (Community Chat Series)

Featuring Lucas Mitzel, LCSW, and Falan Johnson, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Tammy Noteboom:

Community chat recordings are presented by Dakota Family Services, an outpatient clinic with mental health providers in Minot and Fargo, North Dakota. Thank you for listening.

Host Randi Streff:

I'd like to introduce Falan Johnson, one of our therapists in our Fargo office, and Lucas Mitzel, who is also a therapist in our, in our Fargo office. So with that, I'll hand it over to you guys.

Lucas Mitzel:

All right, thanks Randi. Thank you everybody for coming. We're really excited to be able to do this. The topic today obviously is autism but specifically in children. So we're gonna be focusing more on how it presents in children rather than everybody or adults. So autism is considered a neurodevelopmental disorder, and that means that essentially like you're born with this disorder, there's a lot of stigma and a lot of misinformation regarding autism. A big piece of that is like environmental factors can cause autism, and this has been proven false time and time again. But with that being said, we're gonna cover some of what autism actually is. Go through the diagnostic criteria and how it presents and maybe some things that you guys can do if you work with somebody who has autism. So one of the big things regarding autism, there's two main sections as to how autism presents in people.

Lucas Mitzel:

The first is that there's persistent deficits in social communication and interaction. And this is across like multiple different contexts. So it's not just they struggle only in school, but they're good everywhere else, or they struggle only when they get into a large crowd of people. This is a difficulty with social communication and social interaction across nearly every situation they might be in. So how this looks, what does this mean? So deficits in social emotional reciprocity. So they might have a hard time with approaching social situations. It might seem awkward or like it's not natural. Almost forced from time to time they might struggle with some normal back and forth conversation. Reduced sharing of interests, emotion, or affect. So an example of this could be like me sharing something really exciting that happened over the weekend with a kiddo that I'm meeting and they're just like, okay.

Lucas Mitzel:

And to them it like they're just acknowledging that I said something. Whereas maybe if I was talking to Fallon, she would have like this big excited look on her face and really celebrate that something happened and be really excited with me. There might be some failure to initiate or respond to social interactions. So they're gonna have a hard time with putting themselves out there or starting social situations. Now I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, but autism is viewed on a spectrum and every person is going to present very differently. And I say that because person popped in my head who has no problem initiating social situations that has autism. So it's not necessarily a blanket, like everybody looks the exact same, but that can be a sign of or a symptom that somebody, somebody might struggle with. Another thing that we might see is some difficulties with non-verbal communicative behaviors.

Lucas Mitzel:

They're gonna have a hard time integrating verbal and non-verbal communication together. So it might not make sense. Like their body language may not make a whole lot of sense. Their eye contact might be lacking. They might look at the floor or look somewhere else while they're talking to you because that's just really uncomfortable. There's going to be a deficits on the flip side of understanding body language. So oftentimes when I'm talking to kids who have autism, they have a hard time realizing that somebody's upset with that or they have a hard time understanding that maybe something was a joke and you're like, why is everybody laughing? I don't, I don't understand what's going on. Or they were being silly, not realizing that whoever they were being silly with was actually really annoyed and getting really upset with them because they can't read facial expressions very well or body language.

Lucas Mitzel:

And on top of all that, there might be a lack of facial expressions or nonverbal communication. So they just might not have it at all. They might look at you with a blank face every now and again or just, it could come off, it can sometimes be off-putting because they're, it's not, it's really hard for them to understand everything that's going on in, in regards to a social situation or communication. There's deficits in developing or maintaining and understanding relationships. So this is where you're gonna see people having a hard time with adjusting their behavior to suit various different contexts. Whereas like if I were to go to work, I'm gonna act a lot differently than if I were out at a bar with friends, or I would act probably a lot differently at a wedding than I would a funeral and have much different, much different conversations.

Lucas Mitzel:

Whereas somebody who has autism might struggle to understand that when we're in a different social situation, we have to act differently or we're expected to act differently and they're kind of the same everywhere they go. And there's a lot of, I think, beauty in that and awesome parts about that. But also there can be some difficulties surrounding that. They may have a hard time with imaginative play. People with autism, we're gonna get to this a little bit later, they're very literal and it's really hard for them to branch outside of that. So when they say something, they really mean what they said. And if you say something, you really mean what you say. And so using their imagination to play with things or to do certain things can be really difficult. And then also with that, taking something that's of the imagination or like a TV show or video game can be really difficult for them to separate from reality. So they might really take that and think that it's real or that this can happen or I'm gonna make this happen. It can't happen yet, but I'll <laugh> you might have a hard time making friends or just not really be interested in peers together.

Falan Johnson:

I think if I can chime in, I think that's maybe a good time to bring up I think there's this big myth with people with autism that they're not interested in social relationships or they, yeah, they just don't want as much of that connection. And I think, I think that's a myth for the most part. I would say people with autism tend to be more individualistic people and enjoy their alone time, but they're still gonna need those relationships. And it's more about difficulties getting that need met versus not wanting it at all.

Lucas Mitzel:

And I think it's just important to remember that it just looks different, right? As parents, a lot of times we might push what we think is healthy or we would want on our kids, and I see this a lot with parents who are working with children who have autism, that their kid might have one or two friends and they're totally 100% happy with that, but they're like, they don't have any friends and we need to get them to expand their friend group. They have no interest in that. They're totally fine with these one or two people that they've made really good connections with. And that's, that's okay. That's healthy as long as these people are healthy individuals. That's great. So balance, right? And going back to what I said earlier, like just because this is a potential symptom of somebody who has autism does not mean that everybody feels that way, right? So it's all on a spectrum and it's varying degrees of severity and it looks different for every single person. Do you wanna go on to like the next section of just the diagnostic a little bit?

Falan Johnson:

So I, I wanted to add I guess a little bit about how like gender and societal expectations can go with the presentation. So to answer the question, right, why does it look so different in each child? Some other things I think that fall into it that we can forget about sometimes is sometimes there is like a comorbid mood disorder or some kind of trauma history that's gonna also affect how a person is able to manage their symptoms. It might exacerbate symptoms. I think with girls, girls are very much underdiagnosed. It gets missed in girls a lot more often. And I think with kids a lot of the times, okay, because when kids are little, right? There's a lot of these types of behaviors that can kind of blend in or appear age appropriate at the time. So I think of, I've had a couple kids who their special interest was cats and so they would wear cat headbands to school every day. Well, for a second grade girl to do that, that's not particularly unusual. But for a 16 year old girl that behavior is gonna all of a sudden start to not really fit the social norm anymore.

Lucas Mitzel:

So just to continue just a little bit on, on autism and what, what, what it can look like in people, because I just, I think that that's really misunderstood and I think we're gonna touch a little bit on the differences in gender within this as well, because you're right, there is a very big difference in how a boy might present versus a girl sometimes. And that gets really missed. So when we, we look at the second section of diagnostic criteria, we we're talking about restricted repetitive patterns of behavior interests or activities. So this looks like there might be some stereotypes or repetitive motor movements like lining up toys, flipping objects, echoing people or having different idiosyncratic phrases. I always have to point out, just because your child is lining up toys does not mean that your child has autism <laugh>, right? Like this is a very common feature that I think a lot of little kids do.

Lucas Mitzel:

I've seen many kids do this when they're really, really little and not all of them have autism or get diagnosed with autism when they're older. Same thing with like flipping objects. Sometimes that's just fun. So if you're seeing your child doing this, that doesn't mean you know that you're looking at autism. So oftentimes people will wait for diagnosis. I would say, I wanna say the earliest I've seen it was like four, but I'm sure that there's been earlier than that. We try to wait until we know for a fact that this is what we're seeing because a lot of these behaviors are really common in, in young kids. The next part is insistence on sameness. So having inflexible routines or ritualized patterns of both verbal and nonverbal behavior, rigid thinking, different greeting ri rituals or having to take the same route to work or school or eating the same food.

Lucas Mitzel:

My two year old does a bunch of these things, right? And what two year old isn't inflexible, right? <Laugh> or what two year old isn't rigid? So we, we have to be careful with on over diagnosing with that. But it's just important to keep in mind. And the thing that's different with somebody who has autism is that these things, we don't, they're not growing out of it and it's just becoming, it's, it's kind of like who they are. So somebody who might be a teenager or an adolescent that's maybe a little rigid, they might really struggle with, if they get up every morning, they first get dressed and then they brush their teeth and then they eat, eat breakfast. If we were to disrupt that routine and say, breakfast is ready, let's brush our teeth afterwards, that's not gonna work because that's just not how we do things because we brush teeth first.

Lucas Mitzel:

And this can go into things that are even more pleasant. So when covid was happening, right, quarantine and lockdown, I had many clients that I was working with. They weren't, we weren't allowed to go to school anymore and they hated school, they hated it, but they still got really upset that we weren't going to school because it wasn't the ritual, it wasn't the same routine that we were seeing day in and day out. And so diagnostically, we have to make sure that it's not age appropriate behavior for one, and that it's, they haven't grown out of it or that they're going to grow out of it. Like for example, I think I got my words jumbled right there, but another really common symptom of autism is having highly restricted or fixated interests. So I've talked with a lot of people who maybe are feeling like they have autism or 'cause right now there's a huge trend going on in the TikTok world of like, everybody thinks they have autism and they're self diagnosing with autism.

Lucas Mitzel:

And they're like, well, I'm really, really interested in cars or something. And it's like, well, is that the only thing you talk about ever with anybody? She's like, well, no, I can talk about other things. Well, like if you were like having a conversation with me and I were to move you away from that subject of cars, would that upset you? And they're like, well, no, probably don't have autism based on that one little thing. There might be some other stuff that's going on. But when we we're looking at highly restricted, fixated interests, like they're stuck on this one thing, and it's called perseveration, which is a really fancy word of to say, you get stuck and it's like a broken record. Same thing or same subject over and over. So an example of this is I worked with people who get really fixated on certain video games and they, that's all they wanna talk about is like, Fortnite, Fortnite, Fortnite.

Lucas Mitzel:

I'm like, okay, well how is your day going? Is it, it's good. So Fortnite and so like, we just can't get unstuck from that subject. And then lastly, and probably one of the biggest signs that we might be looking at autism is the hyper/hyporeactivity to sensory input. So pain, temperature, sounds, textures, smelling or touching objects being really fascinated with different lights or movement. These are all like classic things that we look for when it comes to autism. And you might try and alleviate this in different ways that we, we can talk about in a few minutes. But, so with all that, the way I visualize autism or the way that I describe it to people is I look at it as kids with autism. They have superpowers and it's kind of like this pyramid way of looking at things and their senses are super heightened.

Lucas Mitzel:

That's their superpower and their brains just can't handle it because we still have just our brains can't do it. So because of that, it causes them to retreat and put themselves in a little bubble to protect against those sensations that are so uncomfortable. And in order to limit the amount of overstimulation they might experience, they need to have control and predictability in their world to avoid the uncomfortableness, right? So that's where that rigid and routine comes in. And so because of the routine and because of the retreating, they don't practice their social skills, which makes them have difficulty with peers, family members, and understanding the world around them. And so if we look at that in a pyramid, a lot of times we get so focused on the social skills or the having difficulty understanding people and, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Lucas Mitzel:

When we, when we look down, we have to take into consideration all these sensory pieces so that they can feel comfortable and be able to be more successful in those social environments. Because when someone is with autism is unable to control the stimulation, they oftentimes become overstimulated, which can lead to what we call a meltdown oftentimes. And this is where children lose control of their brain, their body, and they begin acting out and in order to fix whatever broke in that situation, like if they're overstimulated, they might be trying to stem or destim and try and make it go back to the way it was because it just, it's something feels broken, something doesn't feel right, and they're trying to fix it. If we can help them get control of the sensory aspect of things, everything else is gonna fall into place. So that's where OT comes in as a really awesome tool to use and different sensory tools that we can use like weighted blankets or crash pads. I have a family that has a crash pad in their basement. It's awesome. So in a nutshell, that's, that's kind of what autism looks like.

Falan Johnson:

Yeah, we did have a couple questions in the chat, so I'll touch base on those. So Sean asked how does age affect a diagnosis? So it sounds like their kiddo got diagnosed three years ago when they were five. They're currently eight. And looking at getting reevaluated. I think I would just say age affects the diagnosis very much here. I think kind of like what we had been talking about, I was kind of leading into that, where a lot of times it's not that the symptoms aren't there because if you have autism, you're born with it. It's always been there, it's gonna always be there. But a lot of times the symptoms don't start becoming problematic until they are not developmentally age appropriate. So again, I would say that right there is just reason enough to get reevaluated from time to time. There's a lot that changes before puberty and after puberty. So again, some things that could have been age appropriate at five are going to now be caught in an assessment at 12, for example, hopefully. Anyway, somebody else. And Lucas, I don't have an answer for this one off the top of my head, so if you or Randy does, that'd be great. But out of curiosity of the number of parents who bring their child to be evaluated for autism, what percentage would you say are actually diagnosed with autism?

Lucas Mitzel:

I don't have an actual statistic. I would say. So please take this with a huge grain of salt. I feel like when somebody comes in and they're like, I feel like we're looking at autism, typically that ends up being what it is, but when it comes to the second part here, when needing guidance in regarding two initial paths and steps, first great step is to get them into just a professional, to talk to a therapist or a psychologist. You don't necessarily need testing in order to get diagnosed. Like I feel very comfortable diagnosing autism in most instances. So if you can find somebody that they're comfortable with that they can explain what's going on, that is an excellent first step is just getting them into talk to somebody and just asking the questions. There are certain traits of autism that are also present in other mental health disorders and they can look like autism.

Lucas Mitzel:

Like it's very common for somebody who's maybe a little anxious to be a little rigid sometimes, or somebody who has social anxiety to struggle with social situations and being a little awkward and not having good eye contact, et cetera, et cetera. So it's important to just have professional looking at it, getting the whole picture if you, if that's possible. And if there's still some questioning or we're just not sure, psychological testing is always a really good outlet to kind of nail down what's, what exactly is going on. But first step is I would just get 'em in to talk with somebody and get comfortable with that and then move forward from there following the recommendations of that provider.

Falan Johnson:

Okay. I think we're caught up there. So I do wanna make sure we, we get to interacting with someone with autism and helping set people up for success.

Lucas Mitzel:

Yeah, I think the the biggest, I have a bunch of things that I would tell people just like general tips when working with somebody who has autism. Obviously everybody's different and that's really, really important to remember. It's on the spectrum. Meaning that you can be anywhere from severe and having a significant difficulties to somebody who you would never guess they had autism unless you asked them because they're so good at working through that and have really good skills. But some general tips when working with children who have autism is to communicate very clearly. Again, they're very literal, so avoid using things like sarcasm jokes, metaphors, analogies, idioms, which is really unfortunate because I'm a very sarcastic person. So yeah. And I'm really funny. So when jokes don't get hit when I don't hit, it's really sad. But <laugh>, it's important to just be very clear in how you're communicating.

Lucas Mitzel:

Avoid being offended. If a social interaction doesn't go well or seems kind of off, they might say something very matter of fact that could be taken offensively and not mean it that way. My favorite example of this is my first session with a kid, <laugh>, he said, you look like my dad, except he's a lot fatter than you. And he did not mean that in a, like, it was not an insult, it was just very matter of fact. This is just how I see the world. And so when that stuff's happening, we just need to gently coach them and remind them of what might be more appropriate to say in those times. And try not to get, try not to get offended. They probably didn't mean it like that. And if you were to say that you were offended or that bothered you, oftentimes my kids that I work with feel really bad. They get, because your relationship with them is really, really important.

Falan Johnson:

And I think the most important part when you're working with kids, especially with autism, is to use those moments as learning opportunities. So depending on the situation, you know, it might not be the right time or place right there in the moment. Sometimes we're lucky and it is, but talking about it and just processing, you know, why that was maybe not appropriate in that context and what would've been better.

Lucas Mitzel:

We talked a lot about routines and like rigidity earlier. And so it's really important that we understand the changes that routine are incredibly difficult for people on the autism spectrum. And so the way you can work through this is by using lots of preparation, lots and lots of warnings before a change in routine or even just transitioning from one part of the routine to the other. Even if it's the same thing every single day, you can never give too many warnings, whether it be a five minute warning and then a three and then a two and then a one. And especially if you're going to be transitioning multiple times throughout the day, that could be really helpful for them being conscientious of their reactivities to different sensory inputs. So if you are being asked, for example, to turn the radio down because it's too loud, please respect that <laugh>.

Lucas Mitzel:

'Cause It really like, it might not be super loud to you, but it is very loud to them. I've got a couple of kids that might use, they might walk around with headphones to help deal with the noises of the world and have asked me to not talk so loudly from time to time because it just was really hurting their ears or sunglasses outside to help deal with the sunlight. It's really interesting because for people who have kiddos gym class is a huge trigger for them. And it's oftentimes because number one, the sound I have lots of gym teachers nowadays are like using microphone systems to like talk and give instruction. Fancy.

Lucas Mitzel:

Yeah. And that is really, really loud and it really, really bothers kids and makes them very, very uncomfortable. So then when that sensory input is too much, they can't handle everything else. And so then explosions might happen, or meltdowns also with gym class, the lights make kids really upset 'cause it's just the lighting is just super harsh. I don't know what kind of lights they are, but it's just really hard. And so giving them breaks from that or give like sunglasses or something or those transition lenses or whatever might be helpful too. Yeah, I have a few kids that use those. So,

Falan Johnson:

And I think just getting creative with your environment, depending on what the situation is, sometimes you're gonna be able to do more than in other situations. But what I like some of my families to do is have like a calm down space at home. So like a low sensory place where a kiddo can go to calm down or stem when they need to bring everything down, when it has been really overwhelming and they need to get back to baseline sometimes at school. This can be like, some classrooms are really great at having a space like that. Some don't have the same resources, but sometimes it's just a matter of having a safe person that that kid can go talk to in a quiet, low stim environment. Yeah, not being afraid to, I guess think outside the box a little bit.

Lucas Mitzel:

I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard that Microsoft has done a lot of work in making sensory friendly offices for people on the spectrum, which is really, really cool. And it's something that we should really take into consideration because we can't expect people on the autism spectrum to really mold to their environment super well. And so if we can mold an environment to suit them, they're really successful and they do a really, really awesome job. Whereas if we put them in a crowded room that's super noisy and bright and stuff, they're not, they're gonna lock down like I talked about earlier and not be able to function super well.

Falan Johnson:

So we have a question. It says, what recommendations can you suggest for dealing with individuals who view autism spectrum disorder as linear and get stuck on ideas like high functioning or low functioning as opposed to a diverse spectrum of strengths and challenges?

Lucas Mitzel:

I think it's really common for us to view things in sort of like this dichotomy of extremes. Yes. where we're like either high functioning or low functioning when that's really not how it works. And that I, I have theories as to why we view things that way. 'cause I hear this whole, like, I have high functioning anxiety. I'm like, I don't even know what that means, honestly. And when we look at like the history of the autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, I mean, it used to be kind of like split into three different sections, right? We would have like autistic disorder, Asperger's syndrome, and pervasive developmental delay. And now those are all smashed into autism spectrum disorder, which is why I think people get really confused about this diagnosis and why there's a lot of misinformation regarding it. So if I was talking to somebody who is telling me that they're either high functioning or low functioning, I'm always asking 'em what that even means and just to define their terms because what your version of high functioning could be very different to somebody else's version of high functioning, right? And just reminding them that it is a spectrum and you can be anywhere on that spectrum. And I don't think that there's like a cutoff where it's like, if you have only these many symptoms at this intensity, now you're high functioning. That's just not how it works. And that honestly just comes with a lot of education and spreading information about correct information about this diagnosis. And I'm hopeful that we're getting there. I think that with TikTok there's been a little bit of a downturn with that, but I'm, I'm always hopeful, so, so

Falan Johnson:

Yeah. Okay. Hopefully that answered it. I wondered if you meant individuals who maybe don't have autism themselves who get stuck on that terminology. I wasn't sure if maybe that was more the direction that question was going. I think in that, I think the answer's the same, right? I think it's politely, but assertively educating people on the diagnosis. And I think, you know, one thing that we, I was thinking about mentioning earlier and it just didn't really fit in there, is the language associated with autism too. So autism has a label, so some people really prefer saying I'm a person with autism. While other people prefer to say I'm autistic. There's no specific right or wrong way, but people definitely have their preference. So I think it's really about communicating and, and asking people, you know, how do you identify, how would you like me to address you? How can I best understand what you experience as a person with autism has been?

Lucas Mitzel:

So moving on a little bit into like as a parent who has a child with autism, how do I help other people understand like what to do, right? Because I say this all the time, parents are the experts of their children. And that is especially true when it comes to autism because you've been learning your child's diagnosis or as long as they've been alive, you know all the triggers, you know all of the things that work and calm 'em down and all these things. So, and then you get them into a school situation or working with professionals who have these degrees and oftentimes forget that just because you have a piece of paper on your wall doesn't mean that you're the expert of every single child that walks through your door. So I always, always, always encourage parents to advocate for their kids unapologetically and make sure that people understand what is best for your kid. So if that means that we are trying to get on a 5 0 4 plan or IEPs for school, which a lot of people don't even know are an option for somebody who might be diagnosed with autism,

Falan Johnson:

They exist. It's important. Know these things exist <laugh>.

Lucas Mitzel:

And it's really, really helpful because once those things are in place, you can have different accommodations for your child. Whether that be they work in a quiet room or they get breaks throughout the day, or they have a sensory break at some time where they go into another room and they can destim. Maybe you have a paraprofessional who's helping them out and co-regulating with them or helping them walk through different social situations. These things can all be really helpful. And when it's on a 504 plan or an IEP, now it's in law, which is really wonderful. So you, if they say that they're gonna do it, they have to, and it's just a guarantee that your child is getting the, the resources and help that they need in order to be successful in the school. Another thing that I would encourage you to do if is if you have an individual therapist, then having them help out with that advocating because even though you might be doing the best you can and saying all the right things, for some reason people don't always do, don't listen or don't think you're telling the truth or whatever it is.

Lucas Mitzel:

I don't know what the excuse is, but I love working with families and the schools and helping out calling the school counselors or the principals and trying to help help kids be successful throughout the day. So really just knowing that 504 plans and IEPs exist and that they're available might be something you wanna pursue just to make sure that your child's getting all of the accommodations that they might need.

Falan Johnson:

So I guess maybe just to keep adding with that, how can we help our kids be successful? One thing that I think is maybe not as commonly known is that people with autism tend to be more visual learners. And so sometimes when you are really working on getting a routine down, it's likely going to take more repetition than it would for a neurotypical kid. So I think patience is important there, but to help both parents and the kiddo having like a visual, a visual schedule or a visual reminder or checklist for their routine. So maybe it's something in the, on the bathroom mirror or something like, like a toothbrush and a hairbrush and you know, floss. And then did you do those three things today? For example? I also think visual timers, so there, there's a variety of them out there. Some of them look like an analog clock and then the hand moves and the colors change, but then there's also a stoplight one where it's like red, orange.

Falan Johnson:

Well, yeah, it looks like a stoplight, but some of these can be really effective because sometimes kids, well people in general, right? We do get frustrated having more than one prompt and I think that can get frustrating for parents as well. So again, there are these external prompting tools that can help you both quick. Amazon search, they're out there. And I think, don't forget the basics. Sometimes I think we can get, you know, so into the autism piece of things and forget that at the end of the day a kid is still just gonna be a kid, right? So look at the basics first. Did the kid get enough sleep last night? Have they been eating well? Are they just hangry? Maybe, maybe it's not a sensory thing. Maybe they are just totally depleted and need a nap. Don't overlook those things.

Lucas Mitzel:

Last question, are there programs in schools, or are they allowed to explain autism? Unfortunately I don't think that there are programs where they explain different mental health diagnoses and what is going on. We at DFS have done a lot of work with schools in our area to help provide education to teachers and faculty members to try and help with that as best as we can. But that's going to be an ongoing process as we continue to get more and more new teachers or teachers from different areas as they come in. So like the work never stops, but I don't think that there's, at this time to my knowledge, there's no like school programs that are happening.

Falan Johnson:

Same.

Lucas Mitzel:

But that's a really good idea. They should do that.

Falan Johnson:

I would love that. It's kinda like what this Sean says, right? Kids are great and sometimes, especially in middle school, there's that pack mentality that really comes into play. So I think that's always gonna be a factor to some degree. I like to think in the experiences my kiddos both neurotypical and neurodivergent, it seems like people are getting just a little bit more used to not everybody being on exactly the same plan. I, I like to think that's getting a little bit more normalized. I think we have a long way to go, but it's, it's come a long way since the nineties, I'll say <laugh>.

Lucas Mitzel:

I could talk about autism like all day. I will just say like, it was one last thing. There's a million different ideas when working with somebody who has autism and it's really hard to share them all just generally speaking without knowing the individual child and right what's going on, right? So it's really important if you can, to reach out and get a therapist or psychologist or whatever, just some sort of mental health professional that's working with your child to try and find really specific interventions that might work for your child. So then you can have the most specific and unique interventions that are gonna work rather than just, these can be helpful but just very generalized tips.

Falan Johnson:

Yeah, and I think I, I just wanna add, it can be a big jolt when your kid gets an autism diagnosis. You know, maybe you're somebody who's got a lot of autism in your family and you're a pro and you're good with it. That's wonderful. A lot of times it's not right. So a lot of times this might be your first experience with somebody with autism. So I think it can get, it can get overwhelming and we can get kind of rigid ourselves getting stuck on like the shoulds, right? Like, oh, he's this age, he should be doing this already, or he should be doing that. Comparing a neurodivergent kid to a neurotypical kid is, it's just not going to be helpful for anybody. And they're not, they're not going to be on the same page. And I think at the same time, sometimes people with autism are much more advanced in other areas.

Falan Johnson:

So if we can do our best to accept where that kiddo is at and just kind of help them strengthen their weaknesses, right? I think that is ultimately how you're gonna be the most successful and have the most success. So be mindful about which battles you're picking. You know, not every battle needs to be picked. For example, I have one kid who just would not wear, well actually a lot of kids will not wear jeans and I feel like this is becoming less of a thing, but it used to be a battle, right? Where parents would make kids wear jeans and, you know, that is incredibly uncomfortable for somebody with autism. A lot of the times. Not everybody, they're all, everybody's different, right? But being mindful about do I really have to pick this battle or is this something I can let go?

Lucas Mitzel:

Figuring out what's important. Not living in it's, it can be just regrouping and tackling the thing later when everybody's in a better space. Yep. So it's a really, really helpful tool.

Tammy Noteboom:

Thank you for listening to this community chat presented by Dakota Family Services. To make an appointment with one of our mental health providers or to learn other ways to mind your mind, go to Dakotafamilyservices.org.

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