Resources: Learn More

• “Why Americans are Lonelier and its Effects On Our Health,” (pbs.org)
• “Make the Connection: 10 Effective Ways to Connect with People,” by Maggie Wooll

Things to Think About

• Acting with intentionality is important to getting and staying connected with others.
• If you’re feeling isolated, remember that you’re not alone—many people also experience feelings of loneliness and isolation.

About the Guest

Dr. Megan Spencer is a clinical psychologist at Dakota Family Services. She is passionate about working with individuals and their families and highly values the therapeutic relationship. Dr. Spencer enjoys helping people better understand themselves and their psychological functioning. She looks forward to working with anyone who is looking to better understand and/or improve themselves or their children and families. Her practice includes diagnostic and psychological evaluations and individual cognitive behavioral therapy.

Dr. Martinsen enjoys working with a wide range of ages and diagnoses. His practice is largely focused on complex clients with multiple health challenges. He diagnoses psychiatric and behavioral health conditions, makes recommendations for treatment, and prescribes/manages medications for clients of all ages. Much of his work focuses on maximizing health, treating illness, and promoting healthy longevity through lifestyle medicine.

Transcript
The Power of Social Connections (Community Chat Series)

Featuring Dr. Megan Spencer, Psychologist, and Dr. Wayne Martinsen, Psychiatrist, Dakota Family Services

Tammy Noteboom:

Community Chat recordings are presented by Dakota Family Services, an outpatient clinic with mental health providers in Minot and Fargo, North Dakota. Thank you for listening. Welcome to today's free community chat, the Power of Social Connections. Our two presenters today are psychiatrist Dr. Wayne Martinson, and psychologist Dr. Megan Spencer.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Social connections, or lack thereof can lead to pain, obesity, and in fact even more long-term issues that can affect that longevity or overall happiness and overall wellbeing. Right? That's definitely a part of that. And if we think of just some statistics, I think, you know, sometimes numbers can help us a little bit too. So like I was mentioning, loneliness isn't social isolation, but loneliness and social isolation absolutely relate to social connections. And so just some brief statistics that I think are interesting to know is that 52%, and this is of 2022, 52% of Americans report feeling lonely. So think about that for a second. Half of the people who responded to these particular surveys admitted to feeling lonely and prolonged loneliness. That has to do with social connections and prolonged loneliness were some of the things that I was talking about in terms of those implications, like depression, anxiety, obesity, some of those very much, we know that everything is interrelated, right?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Our physical, our emotional, our day-to-day feeling, it is all very much connected. And so the other side of this is 12% of Americans say they have no close friends at all. So not even somebody that they can necessarily reach out to. And close friends can be a family member. They can be a sibling. It doesn't have to be someone totally outside their realm of their everyday world, whether that be immediate or extended family. Sometimes we even think of spouses, but not everyone has a spouse that can be a best friend, but 12% of Americans are saying they don't have a close friend. So how important is that idea of social connection? And lastly, I thought this was interesting too. Wyoming is one of the loneliest states within the US followed by Vermont, Alaska, and then North Dakota. So social connection is not only important for everyone, but just within our own state, we have a really high rate of loneliness and social connection is absolutely indirectly implicated to that experience of loneliness.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

We also know that social connection is a huge piece to the implication of depression and anxiety, right? Is that these are massive pieces to just the criteria that has to do with those diagnoses. And so to just kind of think about this in a, in a more general sense, this is so really important. But if we get more specific, social connection also doesn't just mean calling a friend once every six months and going for dinner. That's not, doesn't just mean social connection. That's a part of it. That's a piece that needs to be there. But social connection really, if we dig deeper, looks at those relationships that are more intimate, that are more close, but it also looks at the more casual ones that are still important. But we have to have social connections that are in more than one realm because it is all of these pieces that play a role in whether we feel connected and supported by other people.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

So if we think about, if you're saying intimate relationships, right? We think of intimate relationships with, with spouses, absolutely. Spouses can be part of that social connection, that best friend intimate relationships in terms of, of that really deep social connection. So really intimate and casual are both social connections, but the difference then is really those, those intimate relationships are ones where we truly, truly feel that we can be very vulnerable and open. And it's not that casual relationships aren't important because they are important, but it's, it's those intimate social connections that are really gonna provide that support that is so necessary and so needed. So intimate relationships can be, like I mentioned, spouses, they can be, honestly, sometimes a parent is that best friend for somebody. It can be a sibling, an intimate, very social relationship, can be someone that you met through work, but you've become so close and so connected, and they are who you consider to be that intimate support network.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

So again, when we hear the word intimate, I don't want people to think that it, it just relates to a spouse or, or in that way. But intimate means someone who we feel that we can be very vulnerable and open with. Now, casual relationships, like I said, are important casual. I think sometimes casual and acquaintance can get intermixed, and I'm not saying that they're necessarily different, but if we think about an acquaintance, we think about someone we might see in the hall at work or at school and you know, Hey, how's it going? But you're never truly getting deep, right? And casual is, is still different than intimate. But casual might be, Hey, let's go out with a couple people after work and have dinner, or let's go for coffee, or Right? It's, it's someone that's a little bit more closer than, Hey, how's it going while you're walking through the hallway?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

But those are still important because something that I mentioned too is when it comes to social connections, we don't want everyone in our lives to know every detail about us, right? There are certain people that we can feel very vulnerable with and very open with, and that's important to have, but we don't need to have that with 10 or 20 people, right? Each person kind of has their own limit with that. But the reason that I mention this is because both intimate and casual are really important because we're not gonna have a vast number of really intimate social connections that those tend to be fewer simply because it is such a different, more vulnerable experience. So the casual relationships are still important for social connection because they still offer the opportunity for support to build connections that might have to do with kids or activities or things that we're struggling with, like anxiety or depression or ADHD. But those just casual social relations that we don't have to get so deep into are important as well.

Randi Streff:

I have a question or a question in the chat here. Yeah. So I think we've all heard social connectedness really suffered during the pandemic and especially during, you know, quarantine where people were at home and not going out and that kind of thing. What are some of the lasting consequences you have seen with some of the people that you've seen or that you know, within our group of people that we care for at the clinic?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

That's a very good question. I mean, to be totally honest with you that I don't need to say how much that impacted people because I think we all know that. But in terms of very specifically with social connection that piece, kids, adolescents, adults, it's a little different kind of for each one. But if in general, honestly, the lack of social connection absolutely leads to those feelings of loneliness. Honestly, I've talked a lot with my own patients about that idea of feeling like they're living on an island by themselves, and that there's no one else on that island that understands that knows them. So the more, the farther away that we get from connection and the more isolation specifically as it related to covid and those in quarantine that most certainly has led to depression and, and in some people who have never experienced a true depressive episode, will start to experience and have experienced a true depressive episode because it's the length of time, right?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

It's not just a week or a day without having social connection. When it is prolonged like that, it causes this overall feeling of, I am on this by myself, I am in this alone. People don't understand what I'm going through because I can't connect that there's that lack of, of interest even right? Of, of finding things that are fun and enjoyable. It's getting outside, right? Covid and quarantine most certainly impacted emotional wellbeing in terms of depression, anxiety, and in my opinion, I think to some degree it made people's anxiety worse. And the way of, I don't even wanna leave my house, right? Because I'm getting to the point point that I don't know what to expect anymore. I don't know what things are like, and then you throw in the piece of technology, right? I mean, I'm 38 and I'm not totally out of technology, but I'll be totally honest with you, I am not the most savvy when it comes to how to connect in a way that just wasn't how I was brought up.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Or I was used to social connection for a long time, for me was always in person. It wasn't through internets and online groups and chats and podcasts. Now, I will say that I'm very happy that those things exist because those are the ways that we have to reach out for social connection when we are in quarantine or even, I mean, when you're sick, right? Like, I've had many bouts of bronchitis and been pretty much out for a while, right? And that takes you away from some of those social connections that you are so used to every single day. So even illness where it takes you out for a month or so is still gonna impact those social connections. But if we don't understand that we can't stay there, that we have to then reach out and do more, it is gonna lead to some of these medical things that I had mentioned earlier, right? Is if you're not out and about and meeting people, chances are you're more stagnant, right? You're more not moving and, and getting the body going, but it's, it's gonna lead to anxiety and depression, if not at the very least, some pretty significant stress.

Randi Streff:

That's a good segue. There's another question here about technology. With so much of our lives being played out on the internet, you talked a little bit about the ways that people can find connection on the internet. You know, you said podcasts and like we're doing now. But are there other ways that people can find connections on the internet? And are the advantages the same as that in-person connection?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

I think you may get, in my opinion, relationships solely based online are not the same as in-person. Now, here's what I will say about that. One thing that I talk to my own patients about is, you know, especially if somebody has agoraphobia right? Separate from anything else, that, that leaving of the house is really scary. But one thing I say is, is the cool thing about now, and the really awesome piece with technology is you can find support groups online. So whether it's for support groups related to anxiety, depression, or certain illnesses or caregivers, right? You, you initially connect online, and that's where you find that first comfort level and the ability to kind of open up because it's not as vulnerable online as it is in person. But what I always say is that is a really good starting point, but that can't be where you stop.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

So my hope is if somebody was to say find a group online of, and I actually know this exists because there's a lot of, as an adult, if you don't necessarily work full-time, like if you're a stay-at-home parent, it is really hard to find social connections. And I know online there are adult groups of just people who wanna make friends. And so start there, start finding one of those groups that you can be a part of and then move it online, right? So move it to in-person. So maybe once a month or once every couple months, you guys decide, okay, whether it's a smaller group or a bigger group, you get together at this coffee shop just to have that in-person social connection because it is different than online. And I think you get such a more richer, I don't really know how else to say it, but such a more richer experience when you're in person because you get all of the non-verbals, the facial expressions, the very nuances of social exchanges and communication that we just can't necessarily get in person. And sometimes, honestly, even a pat on the back or a hug or touching the hand while somebody is struggling is such a more powerful emotive connection than trying to do that online. So yes, I think for some people that's a good place to start, but in my opinion, that's not a place to stop, if that makes sense. Let's see. We're doing okay on time.

Randi Streff:

How about for parents who are thinking about their children and have maybe noticed, you know, they are more online or they have maybe pulled back from their social or peer groups a little bit. What kind of interventions or things can, could parents think about and be looking out for?

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Totally. So yes, let's think about parents with kids first and just kind of focus on that. So I think this is kind of a twofold question, right? Is one, how do I help my kids build a support system? Or if they had one and they're starting to let it go, what does that mean or what do I do? So we've talked a lot about depression and if your adolescent or kiddo, for the most part has always had a fairly, not that there has to be many, but had some pretty close relationships, connections, and they start kind of withdrawing and isolating, that may be an indication there's something more going on, but still, here are some ways to not only help them, but if your kiddo needs help building connections and support systems, it starts with you. So build strong relationships with your kids first. And what that means is get to really know them.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

And I know that might sound silly, but our world is so busy and we have so much going on that I think we forget sometimes how important it is to just sit down without all of the noise of TVs and electronics and phones and just build a strong relationship. So that's huge. So start with the kid, right? Start in your relationship with the kiddo, but then you can get active and share good habits with your kids, right? We as adults have had so many more years of experience through trial and error of learning what helps and what don't share the things that worked and were helpful. For instance, once a month I set up a get together with a couple good friends. And so me sharing that with my kiddo, you know, who might be an adolescent or even a young adult that's like, God, I just feel so disconnected.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Okay, find that one person that you do feel connected and set up a structured schedule with them, which sounds crazy, but if we don't schedule stuff in, we don't do it. Like, that's just, that's just what happens. So tell your kids what worked for you, what was helpful for you in terms of good habits to develop those relationships. Also ask the sibling, ask another family member what worked for them to build social connections or in terms of adolescences and kiddos, focus on a favorite hobby or a favorite activity or a favorite sport and find something within the community that fits with that favorite hobby or sport. Or even reading. I mean, seriously, there are so many groups for just about everything. And if it doesn't exist, help your kids start one and get people involved.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

And I would see loneliness is sort of the emotional pain that comes when we don't have that social connection. And so it'd be a warning sign the same way that physical pain would be that you had arthritis or something physically going on. You know, the other thing that that we looked at or we talked about before was that social isolation for a lot of people is a chronic pain. So when you think about young people, they start out with this reserve of health, emotional, physical health, most likely. But as you go through life, the more that you, you abuse your bodies, you abuse your emotions or you, you lack social connection, the more you increase your risk over time of some pretty serious health problems related to social connection or the lack thereof and emotional problems.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

So we, we didn't go super in depth. So I mean, certainly if there's more you wanna mention about that, I think most certainly we have the opportunity to talk about it. I just, when you jumped on, I was addressing some questions that were asked in terms of with internet and kiddos, what would be a good way to help kids and adolescents find social connections? Because a lot of our kiddos and adolescents are on a little too much technology and, and online versus that in-person. So what I had mentioned before too, even that question was it's not that online connections are wrong or bad, but they are not the same as in person. And so sometimes those online or, or through the internet can be a good place to start, but there still has to be other pieces that are in person and together because it's just a different experience when you are together in person versus on a screen.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

And especially for young people, you know, the, the research is showing us that video games themselves aren't bad. What's problematic is what they replace and is that face-to-face time and is that spontaneity of face-to-face time that's unscripted where you have this time with friends in childhood, adolescence, and you have to learn how to cope when you have done something wrong or when your friend has done something wrong. And, and all of those nuances of connection and managing a relationship, the skills that are built at that age, that even if you're sharing a video game, there's less spontaneous interaction.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Well, you're exactly right. And I hadn't mentioned that piece too, is, is that spontaneous piece what that the development of it in the, the maturity that needs to occur just from those basic person to person interactions are hugely important.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

The other thing that I think, and we talked a little bit about before, but really foments isolation and, and loneliness is social media that highlights how you look and did you post the thing that people like, I mean, people are out there counting the number of likes they got and their self-esteem is based on it. And you get young people especially, or young women who are, they will never put a, an un-retouched photograph of themselves for fear of being rejected or laughed at. And again, it's not that spontaneous give and take in, in normal discourse where you could say something that's hurtful to your buddy and then say, oh, I'm sorry, but if you've put it online, it's stuck there. And again, it really highlights this sense of differentness or vulnerability that our kids feel in a way that you don't as you're older. And it, it lacks the emotional depth of meaningful connection.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

And I think too, especially with, with adolescents and having that lack of a really good social connection, I mean, here was, here is where we hear some of those secondary problems, you know, like the idea of, of rejection sensitivity or even the anticipated idea that they'll be rejected, so they don't even put themselves out there right. In those situations that they desperately need. And so to kind of tie back, if parents or caregivers are, are wondering, you know, okay, one, we know social connection is important, I may be you know, they might not know all of what it can lead to, but I think one, understanding what social connection can lead to, and then building that relationship with your children and adolescents and talking to them about it. Like, Hey, I've noticed you, you know, you've been withdrawing more or you've been isolating or point out the behavior. Right? Just be very explicit about it and concerning and say, Hey, you know, I've noticed that you, you seem to be more isolated and I, and you know, I really wanna help you find connection. But the more you isolate, the more you're gonna feel that you're rejected, the more that you're gonna feel that you don't belong and people won't accept you for who you are. It's, it's kind of like you get so far away from it, it becomes so much scarier.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

Mm-Hmm. The, the other thing if you look at some of the work of, of Dr. Hewell, Edward Hewell and others, is there's a variety of social connections. And so loneliness in one area doesn't compensate for loneliness in another. So there's social connection with peers, there's social connection with coworkers, there's social connection with our history, with our ethnicity, with our spiritual faith, with our future. And so it's, it's a cultivation, what we've been talking about so far is really that connection that need for kids, which is front and center in our clinic, but there's also a need for connection in a lot more areas of our life and a lot more ways in our life. There's also a need for connection to meaning. Some of those things get more important in late adolescence and adulthood

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Well and connect that idea of meaning, right? With identity mm-hmm, because if you think about it, a massive, a massive important piece for most adolescents is that identity, right? Who am I? Who do I want to be? Who do I look up to? Who do I want to carry with me in my life? And who maybe aren't so great to carry with? And so nothing is disconnected. Every piece is so much connected as our adolescents develop who they are and who they want to be. That idea of them having connections also helps strengthen and give them direction in terms of aspects that they want. Aspects that are important. Characteristics and morals and values and ideas about the world are all to some degree shaped by these relationships and connections or that lack thereof.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

The, the other thing that is more a part of my practice in clinic, and frankly a part of my personal life as I get older, is the, is the health impact of loneliness as we get older. Research indicates that the experience of loneliness is the equivalent of a 15 cigarette per day smoking habit in terms of heart disease, in terms of cardiovascular stroke risk, in terms of dementia risk. And so it becomes, there is a physical cost because of inflammation and other pathways, but there's a physical cost to loneliness as well. The average person who's lonely has a blood pressure, 14 millimeters of mercury higher than somebody who's not lonely. And so there are physical costs across the lifespan. The other thing that happens in young adulthood and middle age, especially in our country, is really focusing on career, moving from family to be successful, to have a better job, to have a better education. And on the one hand that's really understandable and it's great, but it comes at a cost of our social connections, our family connections. We don't find a way to recreate them.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Right? And I think, honestly, that's a really good segue to, I kind of also think also with some of the questions is identifying what are some essential areas of connection, right? And more specific, right? Whether it be a kid or an adult. What do we do? How do we find it? Where does it come from? Mm-hmm. So I think it's, it's really important to just think about what are some areas of connection, right? Because it's, you kind of gotta start broad and then funnel down, right? So if we think about kind of the essential areas of connection, and I did mention this I think a few times as your immediate family, right? Your children, your spouses, there, there is so much that we can do and build that's right in front of us that we might not even realize. So really essential areas of connection has to do with immediate family.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

But it, you know, something that you mentioned too is that family of origin, right? Our histories, it's, it's finding connection with who we are, who the building blocks. Like for me, it, to me, when I think of history is, is not just grandparents, but I know farther down the line, they immigrated here in boats. I know my history in terms of Irish and Scandinavian, that that is I think also an important connection that I have because it helps to some degree inform maybe certain traits that I have or, so there's that family of origin, kind of that historical piece. We, we've already mentioned friends, acquaintances, casual relationships, right? When I was talking about the difference between kind of the more intimate social connections versus the casual versus acquaintances, that's kind of where the friends come into play. Community, what are the community resources and, and Dr. Martinsen jump into as you need, right? Are communities, whether it's Fargo or other places, have certain resources, some more than others, but there are definitely community resources that aren't just online or a self-help book, but groups or, or education.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

And a part of it is intentionality. And so if, if you are going out to an exercise class, or if you're going out to a community education class and you intentionally decide, I'm going to connect a little bit with the people here, yes. You know, there's micro connections is what they refer to it as in terms of the research. So there's the, the sort of the casual work person that you work hard at having just a little bit more connection with and that matters. And then there's the macro connections, which is the lifelong friendships, the connections with family, the coworkers that you've been with for decades. The other thing that I want to sort of respond to is one of the somebody Tammy here notes that social media can also be a real positive. And that's absolutely true. It depends on the depth with which you use it. And so as families get apart, not just phone calls, but using things like portal or other video connections so you can be more spontaneously a part of it. I don't think it takes the place of face-to-face spontaneous time, but it matters. And it's a matter of whether you're posting something and are hypersensitive to the judgment or the feedback or whether you're using it intentionally to connect with other people.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Yep. I think that's a really good point. Intentionality actually fits with all of the different things that are essential, right? Because mm-hmm, we can't move forward if we're not intentional about what we're doing, right? And so another thing could be just nature places in in our environment that can bring us peace and calm that we can go to with a spouse or a good friend or someone that we are casually friends with, but maybe we wanna develop that relationship stronger. And it's a maybe both love to go hiking or both love to go walk, you know, in the park. That's another piece where you can find that connection. The other piece I wanna make sure too, that we mention is we talk about putting ourselves out there a lot, but there are those instances that someone will cancel or doesn't want to be connected, right? So I think it's also important to not just pretend that every time we put ourselves out there, it's gonna work brilliantly and, and come back in our favor. But before I touch on that, is there anything you wanna in terms of like helpful tools or tips for people to make connections to help with that piece?

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

Sure. A couple of things. One of the things is social, repetitive drivers, social appetite. Some of us have a higher drive, and what matters is if we're experiencing loneliness, it means that whoever we are, our social drive isn't being met. So some of us, for example, I work with people all day, we often entertain at my home in the evening. So I have a really high drive and I would experience loneliness a lot quicker than people with lower drive. The other part of social appetite is that in the same way that we like certain foods, we also like certain styles of interacting. So if we're much, much more spiritually focused, our connection's naturally going to be better with our priest, our pastor, or at our church. If we're sort of intellectually focused and curious, it's going to be with the people that, that share that interest if it's drive for families.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

So it's like, it's not a one size fits all, the other, the other comment was just more about micro connections, and it does matter what little things. So if you have a Starbucks or a Caribou Coffee with a barista that you get to know and you make jokes, it's an ongoing connection that is a micro connection that matters. So the more that you have time in a community where you know the people around you, even if you don't know your neighbors well, if you have a positive connection and you smile and you chat briefly, you don't have to be lifelong friends to get some of that need met. Same thing happens at work. You don't have to be hanging out every weekend with your coworkers to have a meaningful shared connection and mission about what you're doing and who you're doing it with.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

If you step back and just think about it, we have all those connections, right? We have the, we have the casual, the more random coffee barista, and then we have the very intimate ones. It's all of them that matter. You can't only have intimate, right? That's helpful mm-hmm. But it's all the pieces of connection that really make the difference and, and not just pieces of it.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

And the quality of those connections matter. Yes, a lot in long term, decades long research. What matters is not just that you're married, married people tend to do better in terms of social connection, but if that marriage is toxic, that actually decreases your sense of connection and it decreases your health.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Okay. I also wanna make sure I just addressed the fact that we talk about putting ourselves out there a lot, whether it be online or in person, and we all have a different kind of vulnerability with that. But putting yourself out there in all those ways to make social connections is more vulnerable, right? And so I think sometimes we also need to remember that even though we put ourselves out there, it's not always gonna work out the way that we want it to or the way that we think, but that doesn't mean we give up, right? And so I think it's important to mention if you do put yourself out there and there is that rejection, or there is that, oh yeah, I'll get back to you tomorrow, and then nobody ever gets back to you, right? Or it's, you make a plan and then the day of someone calls and says, oh, sorry, I'm, you know, I can't make it.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Those things happen. And so I think it's also important to know that if that does happen, it's okay to feel disappointed. It's okay to feel, feel frustrated and upset. That would be normal. But what I always say to my own patients is, it's okay to feel that way and acknowledge it, but you can't sit there, right? Yeah. So what that means is acknowledge your feelings, acknowledge how you're feeling, don't try to deny it, say it out loud to yourself if you have to. Like, that was really frustrating. Or wow, I really tried to make a connection and it just didn't work out. Acknowledge it, but don't sit in it. Acknowledge the feeling.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

The other piece is that if I go out to a restaurant, I'm not gonna like everything on the menu. And you know, when I look around at the humanity around me, I'm not going to enjoy the presence of everybody. And in return, not everybody's going to enjoy being my friend. There is a, a quality or a taste that we all have an interest range we all have, and we have to just accept that we might not be somebody's, somebody's social taste.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

I would say their cup of tea. Yep.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

Yes.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

<Laugh>. Okay. So really that's a, a, a really important piece. So, right, it's, it's acknowledged that they're not always gonna work, accept the feelings that you have. Say 'em out loud, reframe yourself, talk. And this is very CBT, right? But here's the thing, we all talk to ourselves. It's a very normal common thing, but your thoughts are very much gonna inform feelings and emotions and behaviors, right? So you gotta, it's, it's reframing that situation of like, oh God, it's probably something about me they don't like. Or no, it, it could be, it might not be, but I'm not gonna give up or let me try with somebody else. And then it's, what can I learn from that? Okay, I, if it didn't work out and I felt frustrated, and I'm trying to put this in a neutral or positive kinda reframe in my head, now I have to go to again the next step of what can I learn or what can I do differently, right? So this is all about the, we acknowledge our feelings, but we can't sit in it. We have to acknowledge it and then move on as to what we can do.

Randi Streff:

So maybe from both of you, some final thoughts about social connection for everyone who's listening in and here with us today.

Dr. Wayne Martinsen:

So I would just wrap up with the idea that loneliness is epidemic in our society and, and it hit a high point in the pandemic, but still, when you look at research comparing loneliness, post pandemic in 2022 to loneliness in 2000, it's really much higher. We know it has an emotional cost in terms of depression, anxiety, wellbeing. We know it has a physical cost, especially as we get older and there's a million ways to connect. But it requires intentionality. It requires a decision to do that and be vulnerable.

Dr. Megan Spencer:

Time, effort, intentionality. Yep. Absolutely. You have to make a commitment to yourself. That's what this is about. You are just as important as everybody else. So make a commitment to yourself that you are gonna give yourself that time and that commitment and that intentionality to make social connections that really matter and are really gonna be supportive.

Tammy Noteboom:

Thank you for listening to this Community chat presented by Dakota Family Services. To make an appointment with one of our mental health providers or to learn other ways to mind your mind, go to Dakota family services.org.

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