About the Hosts

Christy Wilkie provides therapy for children and adolescents, ages 5-25, who have complex behavioral health issues. She combines her extensive clinical expertise with a belief in kids, and has a unique ability to find and develop their strengths. She works hard to be an ideal therapist for her clients, doing what is best to fit their needs.

Lucas Mitzel provides therapy for children, adolescents, and adults, ages 5 - 30. He believes building relationships with clients is the most important piece of successful therapy. He loves what he does because it allows him to walk next to people he would never have met had he chosen a different profession, as they work to make amazing life changes. He has the honor of meeting people at their worst, all while watching them grow into the people they’ve always wanted to be.

Transcript
Change is Hard

Featuring Christy Wilkie, LCSW, and Lucas Mitzel, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Announcer:

This episode of Is It Just Me, is brought to you by Dakota Family Services, your trusted partner in mental and behavioral health. Whether you need in-person or virtual care, the team of professionals at Dakota Family Services is dedicated to supporting children, adolescents and adults in their journey to better mental health,

Christy Wilkie:

Disrupting life patterns and life routines that aren't serving you.

Christy Wilkie:

It's how we feel that keeps us going.

Christy Wilkie:

You can be a masterpiece in a work of art. All at the

Christy Wilkie:

Hey everyone. I'm Lucas. And I'm Christy. And you're listening to the Is it Just Me podcast where we

Christy Wilkie:

Aim to provide education, decrease the stigma and expel some myths around mental health.

Christy Wilkie:

Christy, is it just me or is change hard?

Christy Wilkie:

It is not just you. Change is very hard. You know that for me in general, change is really hard. <Laugh> <laugh>, I'm a very routine sort of person, like down to the minute. So any change in my, in my world is really difficult. Yeah. And I don't know what's coming into your office this, this week, but this time of year is really difficult because there's a lot of changes that happen.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. The spring and the fall are always really hard for kids that we see and for families because they are in the fall, they're going back into school and they're sad about the summer in the spring they're leaving school. And some are really sad about that and others are just really excited. But I mean, parents could be a little bit sad that their kids are gonna be staying home all day <laugh>. So there's just a lot of transitions going on there. Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Either way it's difficult 'cause you go, I mean, for parents they go from having six hours of the day or they have some time to maybe get some things done to having a house full of children, which is not bad. Right. But it sure is different.

Christy Wilkie:

It's very different. <Laugh>. What do you think qualifies as a big change in

Christy Wilkie:

General? For me, I think change is very relative for people. What qualifies as a big change for me, other people might think is not a big deal and what qualifies as a big deal for some other people. I'm like, really? You struggle with that one that I always struggle with and you know this about me is daylight savings time <laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

That is really hard.

Christy Wilkie:

It's mostly because of the light and running honestly is what it comes down to in the morning. But that's a big change for me. I think big changes in my life have been like when I look at the biggest ones I look at leaving school to go to college.

Christy Wilkie:

Oh Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Was Huge. Getting married was a huge one. Those are the two biggest changes that I can think of personally that happened in my life. Yeah. What kind of changes happened in your life now? I'm curious.

Christy Wilkie:

There's been lots <laugh> <laugh>, but I think one of the big ones, it's not even a bad change. Like it's, which is I think what a lot of people want focus on when they think of change. Being hard is something that you don't want. But when my kid was born, you know, that was very planned, very wanted. Yes. And yet when he's born, my whole sleep schedule's thrown off. And the fact that I have to sacrifice everything about me in order to care for this human being, that for some reason I'm allowed to be in charge of <laugh>. And it's, although very wanted and celebrated, and I being a dad is my favorite thing in the whole world. Yeah. It is a big transition. And it, it, there were moments where it was really difficult to do that or things that maybe I didn't necessarily expect or think of beforehand. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

I think that is the really tricky part about big transitions and change in general is like, I feel like people often feel like there's a way that they should feel about those changes. Yeah. Instead of realizing that however you feel is fine, like we can deal with however it is that you're feeling. When you're ignoring emotions that are coming up because of changes that gets to be a problem. But a word that we throw around, but I, and most people just don't in their daily jargon, I suppose is a dialectic. Where two opposite things can be true at the same time. I always tell kids when they're in my office 'cause they love their parents, but that you can love and hate your parents at the same time and that's okay. It's when you start fighting what you should be feeling and then judging yourself for what you're feeling about that, that it gets to be a problem.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. And I think going back to the school example, kids can be excited for the summer, but also sad at the same time that school's ending because they're gonna miss their friends. Right. Or they're gonna miss their teachers. They could be excited about school starting. 'cause It's a new start, but also very nervous and not want to go right at the same time. So when these things happen, when these dialectics occur, that can cause a lot of cognitive dissonance because it's very confusing at times. Yeah. And can just make changes more difficult. But we're gonna talk a lot, I think about validation today. Yeah. And validating yourself is huge. Yeah. And getting through that. And it's going to be really key to minimizing the amount of distress that you have. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> overall

Christy Wilkie:

What you used the word cognitive dissonance. Oh yeah. Which again, is something that we just kind of throw around. Yep. But what does cognitive dissonance mean?

Christy Wilkie:

Cognitive dissonance in my words is the discomfort. And sometimes it's like physical discomfort you might have from having a thought or an action that doesn't match up with how you think things should be. Right. So if, for example, I am thinking that I should be really excited about the summer, but I'm feeling sadness that could lead to cognitive dissonance and I'd be trying to change that in whatever way by maybe faking being happy and excited. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and just like overcompensating for that to make myself feel that way. Right. Rather than just accepting the fact that I'm having two competing emotions. Right. And that's okay.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think that happens even when you talk about some kids being sad about summertime is that there are, there's a big population of kids even in the Fargo Moorhead area, that people sometimes don't realize that this exists. But where going to school is the only stable thing in their lives. Yeah. It's their, it's their, they know that they're getting, they're getting fed when they go there. They know the people that are gonna be there, their teachers the same every time they go. And they get that stability at school that they don't have in the summertime. And some of those security things that, that they are provided by having a routine with the school is kind of taken away. And so they see all these other kids being like, yeah, school's out. We get to hang out with our friends and go on family vacations and, and life isn't like that for a lot of people. And so it's kind of like, how do you, how do you work through that in your head when you see everybody else around you is like super stoked about what they're gonna do in the summertime? And you're thinking, how am I gonna get lunch?

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think that causes a lot of discomfort when you're seeing other people who are experiencing the same, in air quotes here, experiencing the same thing as you in that they're having the same transition, but they're having much different feelings about that than you are. And if you are having really negative feelings and you see everybody else is really excited, that's really easy to invalidate yourself or feel invalidated by everybody else who doesn't understand. Right. So, and that can just, again, increase the amount of distress that a big life transition or any sort of transition can cause.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. And I think you know, I I think about parents right now 'cause I have a lot of parents that are going through this empty nest, like potentially empty nesting with their kids going off to college and they kind of look to their social circle to get validity for their feelings. But you don't get two parents that feel the same way. Like there are some parents that are like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna be so sad that my kids are gone. Yeah. Like, I don't want them to leave. And then you get some that they're like out the door, get out.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

I am. I am done with you. You need to go spread your wings and fly. Right. Right. Right. And so it's kinda like when you go to your support system and someone isn't feeling the same way that you're feeling about it, it's like, well, where am I gonna get this? Where am I gonna get validation in my feelings? Yeah. And it's like, well, hey, that comes down to you.

Christy Wilkie:

Exactly. <laugh>, because all feelings are valid.

Christy Wilkie:

They are all feelings are valid, but knowing that your feelings are valid and accepting whatever comes in and however you're feeling is okay. Is really hard.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think some of the big emotions that I come across when working with somebody who's going through big changes is fear. Yeah. And that's typically of the unknown of what might come next. Again, these come with good transitions and negative transitions are ones that we don't want Yeah. Sadness of what was supposed to be Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or what was maybe lost because of this transition. Or perhaps whatever you lost is causing that transition. Right. Like if you lost a relative, for example, anger of injustice that may have caused this transition to occur or injustice that the transition is causing. Right. You, and also excitement can is really common with these sorts of things. So it doesn't, there's a whole range of emotions. Not only listed off five four of them. Math is hard. Could you count? Yeah. Math is hard. 1, 2, 3, 4. Sorry. That's why I went into social work

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. I know. But here we are still trying to do math.

Christy Wilkie:

I know. I know. But there's a whole array of emotions that somebody could feel. And like we've already talked about with the dialectic, you could feel multiple at the same time. Yeah. And they could all be opposing one another. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

I think another confusion is, is one that comes to mind when I think of big changes that I've gone through in my life and there have been several, but because your identity changes. Yeah. You go from being like, I think about going to college. Right. Which seems simple. You should be, should be air quotes excited about that. Right. I hope. But <laugh>, but there's a lot of confusion that comes with that for you go from being a daughter who's a high school student, who is a tennis player who, I mean, my whole identity for 18 years of my life was around being a tennis player. And then you go to college and that's, that's not who you are anymore. Nobody knows who you are. Yeah. You, you know, you grew up with the same group of friends. You had this, I grew up in a really small town. My parents are awesome and just always took care of me. And now I am a person who is alone in a town that I don't know anybody and I don't know how to do laundry. No judging. Thank you <laugh>. But like you, you have to figure that out. And it's like a huge identity crisis. Like who am I when I don't have all the people that I've had around me for 18 years? It's tough.

Christy Wilkie:

It's very tough.

Christy Wilkie:

It's Confusing.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. Absolutely. And I, I think that the big piece that, or one of the many that can cause so much discomfort is that our bodies and brains, they're always seeking homeostasis. They were just equilibrium. Right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> things to be. Okay. Big words. I know I'm a nerd. I'm sorry, <laugh>. They just want things to be stable. Is that better? Yes. <laugh> and any sort of change disrupts this. Right. So, and then we very quickly want to find that stability again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And when you're in the middle of a change, depending on the size of the change, depending on what that change is, that can be very difficult to find. Which leads to a lot of big feelings that can be hard to control and can lead to other issues as well. But overall, it just makes us uncomfortable. I mean, even having <laugh> Christy, what would happen if I made you change your routine in the morning?

Christy Wilkie:

My hands just started sweating. <Laugh>. Honestly, I did because I, it's down, it's down to the minute

Christy Wilkie:

I Yeah, because you're ridiculous.

Christy Wilkie:

I I know. And so we spoke at the family based conference last week.

Christy Wilkie:

So fun. It was by the way,

Christy Wilkie:

So fun. We loved them <laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

It's great. I don't know why they keep giving us microphones, but it's, I love it.

Christy Wilkie:

You know, it's ridiculous. But the amount of anxiety that it gave me, because it started at, I had to be there at eight.

Christy Wilkie:

Oh yeah. I was thinking about you.

Christy Wilkie:

I had to push everything back an hour, but then it wasn't exactly eight, like eight 15. And so then there's math involved 'cause it's like down to the minute. So like, changing that routine was honestly stressful for that week because it just, it wasn't what I was used to doing. And my body's like, why are we up at four instead of five? Like, that's dumb <laugh>. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But it's, it does. And that's some would argue Lucas, that that is a little change.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. You know, because for me that didn't really bother me. Yeah. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

Why are you bragging <laugh> <laugh>? Nobody likes a braggart. Fair enough. I'm sorry. But for me, for that week, it was, it's a significant change to have like an hour in my day is like, it just kind of throws me off.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. It kind of gives you a sense of like loss of control. Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Oh yeah. Is this my therapy session now?

Christy Wilkie:

It might be

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. I like it.

Christy Wilkie:

Welcome. Thank you.

Christy Wilkie:

I'll give you my address for the bill.

Christy Wilkie:

There you go. Yes. Yeah. No, loss of control is huge when it comes to change. Especially when it's an unwanted or something that you just can't control. Right. Like it's happening to you rather than you choosing it. But even choosing the change can also feel like you have a little bit of a loss of control. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

But think about like death. You don't have any control over death, but losing somebody in your life is a huge change. Yeah. Whether it's planned or not planned, it's like, I think that a lot of people struggle with all of these same emotions that we're having, but like, people don't think about death as a change or a transition. But it is, it's a transition of life. It's a transition of traditions, of all sorts of things. I think that historically, from what I've seen, people don't know how to grieve death 'cause they think they need to do it correctly.

Christy Wilkie:

Right.

Christy Wilkie:

And there isn't a way to do it correctly.

Christy Wilkie:

The correct way to grieve is to grieve. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

However that is.

Christy Wilkie:

Which seems really dumb or like cliche, but it's, it is honestly the truth.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think I get a lot of people that come in and they'll, they're talking about death and they're just like, I just feel like I'm not doing it right or I'm not doing it enough. Or I wasn't sad enough at the funeral, or I wasn't mad or I was just like, all these things that they should be. And it's like you just gotta focus on what is instead of what, what you think everybody else thinks that you should be doing. You don't have to feel anyway other than how you feel.

Christy Wilkie:

That's the word. Right. The should. Yeah. And it doesn't matter what you should feel. One of my favorite phrases is stop shoulding on yourself. <Laugh>. And because it's so, it doesn't matter what you should feel, how do you feel? Right. And when you can accept or identify how you do feel, everything else doesn't really matter because this is what's reality. And so let's work with reality. You judging yourself for how you don't feel or what you think that you should feel, or how other people tell you to feel about something is irrelevant to what is actually happening.

Christy Wilkie:

And actually does more damage than good because then you have it in your head. Like, why am I not doing this? Why am I not feeling this way? What's wrong with me? That I am not grieving the way that I think I should be grieving that other people should be grieving. And that leads to anxiety and depression. Because think of all of that negative self-talk that you have. And as we've said before, your thoughts are really powerful. And so when you're shoulding on yourself <laugh>,

Christy Wilkie:

You can steal that.

Christy Wilkie:

I'm going to, when you're, when you're doing that, all you're doing is telling yourself that you're, something is wrong with you, that you're bad. That it's all of these negative emotions that you're attributing to yourself unnecessarily. So Right. Which leads to anxiety, depression, all sorts of things.

Christy Wilkie:

Absolutely. So moving into, you just started talking about anxiety, but what are some of the populations or diagnoses that may struggle the most with transitions?

Christy Wilkie:

I'm obviously anxious. Yeah. I think PTSD is a big one because there's so much unknown that comes in changes. And so it's like trusting your environment again, depending on what your trauma is. I think it's difficult to put your trust in a situation or a new environment that you don't understand. Depression I think is always a big one because you just never, depression is a sneaky little Yeah. It's a sneaky little guy. <Laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so like any sort of change, I think once you've been in a depressive state and you know what that feels like, I think that any change kind of preempts you to be like, is it gonna come back? Is it gonna come back? Is it gonna come back? 'cause You just don't know.

Christy Wilkie:

Well, and we talked a bit about depression. And depression and anxiety are very close cousins, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so they oftentimes will room together in your head. And when you have a change and it makes you feel out of control, then those anxious thoughts can pop up in your head. And they typically have a negative connotation or voice and are very judgy. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> to you. And it can cause you to kind of spiral a little bit. Right. Talking about, you mentioned trauma a bit and feeling unsafe is really huge because when you, when you feel lack of control, that's not a good feeling. No.

Christy Wilkie:

I'm sure

Christy Wilkie:

Most people listening can relate to what a, a time where they felt out of control Yeah. Of something. But when you have add trauma on top of that, when you experience a traumatic event, you are out of control of that event. Right. And so bringing yourself back into a feeling of out of control can be really triggering for them. And can it cause increased irritability, even like outbursts Yeah. And all because of a life event that's occurring. And so it's just, it's gonna, it's really important for people just to be aware that maybe you're more vulnerable to transitions and if you can, to prepare yourself for those things.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think one of the big things with, with any sort of any sort of mental health stuff that we're talking about, but having a support system is so huge in so many ways. And when you, depending on the transition, if you're moving, if you're leaving town, if you're changing jobs, if you're change, I mean, any of those things require you to like almost rebuild your support systems. If you look at, and I mean, I don't think that we're alone in this, but a good deal of my support system does come from the people that I work with. Yeah. I mean, you're a jerk, but I know, but you're mine. You're my jerk. <Laugh>, you're, you're my emotional support colleague. <Laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

Thank you for owning me <laugh>. I appreciate that. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

But I mean, and, and the rest of our colleagues here too at Dakota Family Services, I mean we're just, we very much support each other in, in everything that we do. And so that's a very important part of it. And so if you were just to take me and pluck me and put me somewhere else and I'm starting over trying to find a whole new support system.

Christy Wilkie:

Nope.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh> not doing it. <Laugh>. No, no. Not gonna do it. But you look at, I mean, I talked about my own transition from high school to college where you have all these friends who know you and they know innately like what you need. And then you go someplace where people don't innately know that they don't know who you are. So like preparing yourself to find a support system and maybe even doing that before you move, joining a Facebook group or in Instagram group, whatever it is that you wanna do, where you're, you're reaching out to people so you kind of have an idea of people that you can be with, I think is huge. 'cause We all need people, whether they're, whether they live in the computers or if they live next door.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah Absolutely. And I think your example of going to from high school to college and how that was really stressful for you is a really good example of how two people can feel differently. Because when I went from high school to college, I was so excited. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and had no anxiety about it. You <laugh> I know it is weird. But I all that social to me is just gonna school again. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and like any sort of social stressors or anything like that, like didn't exist because I was excited to get away from high school. Wow. Yeah. And because I didn't really like high school all that much.

Christy Wilkie:

Is this Your therapy session now?

Christy Wilkie:

Now we've switched <laugh> and <laugh>. It was just really helpful for me to go to college and I felt a lot better Yeah. During that transition than some other people I know who were going through that same transition from the same high school. Yeah. And so it's just everybody responds differently and it's important just to let yourself feel what you feel. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

And to not judge each other. 'cause I, now that you, I know a lot of people that did not love high school. It can be a hard time. Some people loved high school. I loved high school. Some people hated it. I know plenty of people that did. And I think not judging people for how they're experiencing it is really important. 'cause Like I could, if somebody said, well, I hated high school, I'd be like, what's wrong with you that you hated high school? You weirdo. You know? And, and conversely they could be like, you liked high school, like gross. Right. Disgusting. Get your head looked at, you know, <laugh>. But it's, it doesn't you any good to judge anybody else's experience. And I think that the more that we can get humankind in general to not judge somebody else's experience, the better off we're all gonna be.

Christy Wilkie:

Absolutely. And going back to some of the diagnoses a little bit here, I think we'd be remiss to not talk about autism. Oh yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Oh God, yes.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh> and good point. Autism people who are diagnosed with autism have a very difficult time with transitions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> from the smallest transition to the largest ones. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it's just very important that we are very patient with our friends who have autism. Yes.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. It's very important. And we talk about pre-planning. I think when we're talking about the autism diagnosis and the spectrum, anything that you can do to pre-plan for that is great. Like go on tours of wherever they're going. Like make sure that you have gone there several times. What is the schedule, what's the routine gonna be? I mean, even people, depending on where they're on the spectrum, some people have a hard time when people don't have the same demeanor from time to time when they see them. And so they're, they're trying to get to know all of these new characters in their story Yeah. And figuring out what they can expect from them. And that takes time. And it's hard.

Christy Wilkie:

Absolutely. And I think, you know, we're gonna have to do a podcast on autism. Right. In general. But you mentioned spectrum. Yeah. And so can you explain what you mean by that?

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. Autism happens on a spectrum. There are very severe cases and then there's very mild cases where people, there are people walking around who have an autism diagnosis and you would never know it's just lack of social skills, some rigidity like that kinds of things, but not in a way that gets in the way of them having a, a fully, you know, fulfilling life and whatever. And then you have people that are on the spectrum that I think people think of when they think of people who are autistic that really can't function right. On their own. And there's everything in between. But I do think, like you said, this is like a whole other Ted talk, but like there are just, so if you've met a person with autism, you've met one person with autism. Yes. And that, and that is what it is. There is just so much that can happen ev and everything in between that Yeah. It's difficult, but it's like you just get to know those people and help them and find what they need, what that person specifically needs to be successful.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. It's very, very specific. Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh> it is very, it is very, very specific.

Christy Wilkie:

So what about we've been talking a lot about bigger transitions and big life stuff, but what about the smaller sort of transitions like day-to-day stuff? Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

I mean, I guess this could be considered a big transition too, but like one of my, I was talking to someone in their child had changed their bedroom from being their little kid bedroom to like their teenage bedroom. Oh sure. Which like sound like again, sounds super exciting and Oh my gosh, how great this is. Yeah. But the kid was kind of like, I don't know how I feel about this. Like, it was just a change in, I think it was like a change of curtains in a bed. But, and then they took some of the, like their old posters and stuff off their walls and just kind of made it a grownup room. Yeah. But that was a big deal. And so that, like, I think that's sounds like a maybe a small thing to aesthetic changes that you make, but it's like that's a whole change in your identity. Yeah. You know, going from one thing to another other small changes throughout the day. <Laugh>, I say this, but like having a new coworker.

Christy Wilkie:

Oh yeah. Not even

Christy Wilkie:

One that I need necessarily work that closely with, but seeing, seeing a new face around, it's like, oh, that, who, okay, who's this? Yeah. You're the new character in my story, <laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

Absolutely. Yeah. Or even like for you and I having new clients Yeah. And having an addition there. Or if there's, if we were asked to shift something in our schedules, oh my gosh. Yeah, <laugh> of course I'll do it. Of course. But, but it's still, it, it leads to some uncomfortableness there, it

Christy Wilkie:

A little,

Christy Wilkie:

Maybe it's big for you and that's okay. <Laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

It's, it is. So things even is like laundry detergent, like changing a laundry detergent. Yeah. <laugh>. Which sounds dumb, but your olfactory sense is so related to like memory and how you experience things that like when you change a scent of laundry detergent, like it's just a different, it's just a different experience. Yeah. Which sounds really stupid, but it's not. Yep.

Christy Wilkie:

Have you ever been asked to like you've, you've done something the same way, way forever it seems like. And then somebody ask, well why don't you do it this way? Which would be more efficient. Yes. But you're just like, because I do it this way. Yep.

Christy Wilkie:

I do that all the time. Yeah. All of the

Christy Wilkie:

Time. That's why I ask,

Christy Wilkie:

I know <laugh>. 'cause It's like I would <laugh> I would rather, I would rather do like a couple of extra steps because I know that that's how I know how to do it. Yeah. Than to be like, okay, but you can skip that by just doing this. And I was like, don't wanna.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. 'cause that's uncomfortable. <Laugh>. It's

Christy Wilkie:

Uncomfortable. I'm, I'm coming off very rigid today. <Laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

That was my goal.

Christy Wilkie:

Yes. Like, what is your goal of this podcast today, Lucas?

Christy Wilkie:

I think you're getting it. <Laugh>. <laugh>. What about like, with so changing in behaviors. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because that's also really hard. Yeah. And I think when we change like habits, there's whole books written about changing habits Yeah. And how things can take, what is it, like 24 days or something like that to make a habit. Something like that. 21, 20 something 21. I don't know. I feel like it changes, but

Christy Wilkie:

Probably,

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. Whatever. <laugh> over 20 days

Christy Wilkie:

For sure. We can agree on that. Okay.

Christy Wilkie:

Perfect. And then for some people, like people who have a DHD for example, it takes even longer almost double that. What do you think are some of the biggest things that get in the way of people making changes in their behaviors?

Christy Wilkie:

That is a really good question. I think one of the big things is that, well, one, people set their sights too high. They make changes that are way too big for the situation, for what they're capable of doing in the moment. So like, meeting yourself where you're at and saying, instead of being like, I am going to cut out all sugar <laugh> out of my diet. Right. And say, you know what, I'm just gonna cut out this part of I'm, I'm gonna change the way that I'm eating this time of the day instead of just cutting everything out. Yeah. It's like this all or nothing idea of change. And that's not, it doesn't have to be that way. Like, we've talked about this before, but you start working out, you're not gonna go and run a marathon on day two. Right. Like, that's just not what it's gonna be. And your goal, honestly shouldn't be, I'm gonna go run a marathon. It's fine if it is, but eventually get there if that, you know, you know, you have your big goal, but then break it up into smaller ones. Be like, today I'm gonna go a mile. And that's great. Like, let's start there. I think that that is honestly the biggest thing that gets in the way of, of change is that as soon as people perceive that they're failing, they quit.

Christy Wilkie:

For sure. Especially with working out Yeah. And stuff. I feel like that happens a lot. Any sort of behavior change, if you feel like you're not doing it well enough, then it's going to be really discouraging. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that comes from a place of like not accepting where you're at and expecting you to be further than you are or not having a clear goal or a way to measure your progress. Yeah. And we had a whole podcast about that <laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

Check It out episode one. <Laugh>

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. So not gonna go into that too much. But those are really key important things to make sure that you are feeling like you're making progress in those behavioral changes when it comes to kids. I think it's really important as parents and as professionals working with them. I know, and I can speak for Christy on this too, but kids or people would do well if they could. Yeah. And if they're not doing well, if they're not doing the things that they want to do or that we want them to do, there's probably something blocking that. Either a skill issue, maybe there's a knowledge issue or there's some other factor outside of them that's preventing them from wanting to do well. Because I can't think of a time ever in my life where I thought to myself, I really wanna fail today. <Laugh>,

Christy Wilkie:

You know, maybe once, but no. Yeah. It's not, we don't wake up and do it.

Christy Wilkie:

And I've never met a kid who wants to fail. Never. Never. No. They feel like they just, they feel so gross when they fail. Right. And even if it looks like they enjoyed it, they don't No <laugh> they don't.

Christy Wilkie:

Nope. No, I talk about this all the time. So, and I've maybe even talked about it in a podcast, but when you're talking about change in neuro pathways, you're creating a new neuro pathway in your brain anytime you're trying to change something. And so it's kind of like walking through a park and when you're walking through a park and you know the path, and even if that path leads to like a dragon, get that, it's a mythical creature Lucas.

Christy Wilkie:

I appreciate it.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>, but it's, let's just say that it's a mean dragon at the end of that path. You know, that that's what's there. Yeah. Even if it's bad, you know, that that's what's there. So creating a change is like stepping off the path into the woods and being like, well, let's see what's down here. And so you take a couple steps that way and it's like, Ooh, I don't know where I'm going. And you go back to where it was and you're back to the dragon. Right? Yep. But then the next time you maybe go a couple more steps in and eventually you end up taking that other path more frequently 'cause you're like, oh, this is actually working for me. This is actually safer. But you have to like, convince your brain that that's how it is. And eventually that old path kind of covers over and then this new path is formed. But think about how long that takes to walk that path before it becomes an actual change in a behavior. I mean, that's, that's a lot of walking.

Christy Wilkie:

It's a lot of walking and depending on what your past is like, like if there's trauma Yeah. Involved there, those trauma pathways are very well paved. Yeah. And that's all about survival. Right. And your brain does not wanna deviate from those paths. Yeah. Because this is how you survived those moments. And it's really hard to break through those and form new pathways and things, especially if your environment is still chaotic. Right. Talking about anxiety. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> as well. Like, you're trying to prevent yourself from failing. And even if at the end result you are, it's still really difficult to adjust that. Right. talking about autism rigid brains. Yes. And so even if, even if it's not working for them, it's really difficult to convince them otherwise. Right. 'cause This is just how it needs to be. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

And you know, the outcome. Yeah. Like even if the outcome is, we talk about this in patterns and relationships all of the time, right? Like you can identify patterns in relationships and to try to get, and, and people tend to, we all do, we all tend to fall into the same patterns of relationships with friendships, with, with romantic partners, with whatever the case may be. And like, we'll sit down with people and, and you can identify the patterns and the behaviors and be like, okay, what do we need to do to interrupt that behavior? And that is hard Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> to do. But if you don't make that change, you're gonna fall into the same unhealthy patterns. But it's, you fall into those patterns because they're comfortable even though they're not great. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

Like, this is what, you know.

Christy Wilkie:

It's Just what you know. Yeah. And we talk about kids that grew up in chaotic homes. Right. They don't know how to function without there being chaos. And the lack of chaos is really uncomfortable. So when there isn't chaos, they make it.

Christy Wilkie:

Right.

Christy Wilkie:

And adults do that

Christy Wilkie:

Too. It's okay to be okay.

Christy Wilkie:

It Is okay to be okay. But a lot of times when it, I mean, you think about trauma, a lot of times when kids would feel okay when you were younger, that's when the hammer would drop. And so that exactly that feeling of being calm was just like, oh gosh, what's happening next? What's coming next? And having that, that foreboding of, okay, it's quiet, but where's the storm? Yep. And so that, that feeling of peacefulness and calmness is more or less predicting that there's going to be something terrible that follows that. And so having, having to learn that, that there is comfort in the calm is really, is really a hard skill for a lot of people. And it doesn't, it doesn't even have to be major trauma. It can just be, I mean, anxious people kind of are like that too. Yeah. Where's just like, I know how to function in chaos and so that's, that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna pick up another hobby. We're gonna make 17 plans for happy hours after work. We're gonna, we're our kids are gonna be enrolled in 70,000 activities and we're just gonna keep going. Yes. Instead of just being like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just, hey, let's just, let's just stop for a minute. Like, it doesn't always, don't always have to be going.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. But then I have to sit in my thoughts

Christy Wilkie:

When that's really uncomfortable and who knows,

Christy Wilkie:

Who knows what's gonna come up most Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Who knows what's going on there.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. So then when it comes to transitions, big life transitions, what I think it would be really helpful to talk about what we can do to help ourselves Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> moving through transitions along with helping other people, whether that be our kids or family members and things. So what are some of the big things that you've used to help people move through transitions

Christy Wilkie:

Using a support system and figuring out how you can even take the one that you have and use it wherever you're going for whatever you're going for. I think having people around you that you can talk to that are validating, that aren't going to, that aren't judging. I mean, we talk about all the, I talk about this all the time because my, the people that I keep around me are all, it's very important. And I think you be, you end up becoming, there is some science in this Lucas, but I don't know it off the top of my head. So I'm, I don't, I was gonna make up some sort of statistic.

Christy Wilkie:

Just Trust me, bro.

Christy Wilkie:

But Yeah. <Laugh>, trust me, bro. I, I've been doing this a long time. <Laugh> you become, you take on the qualities of the five people that you spend the most time with. And I think that that's true. It's maybe six, eh, we'll say five. And so the people that you keep the closest to you, you're going to become the most like. And so you, if you're hanging out with people that are judging other people or that are making bad choices or unhealthy decisions, you're going to do that. If you surround yourself with people that are positive and validating and people that are making good decisions and and are interested in you, and it's a reciprocal relationship, which is really important, then you're going to become that. And so finding the people that will help you the most in, in a positive way, I think is so important.

Christy Wilkie:

Absolutely. That is huge. And one of the things that I use is talking about radical acceptance. Oh yeah. And that's not a, it's not like a fun skill <laugh>

Christy Wilkie:

No. Or easy.

Christy Wilkie:

Or easy for that matter for anybody. It's very difficult. Yeah. But it's when you accept circumstances that you can't change. Right. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that you're approving it, that you say that it's okay or that you like it, but it's kinda letting go of control. Yeah. And just letting what is be. Yeah. And so for really funny story about this actually from when I was full

Christy Wilkie:

Acceptance. Hilarious.

Christy Wilkie:

I know. So when I was in high school, I played football. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I tackled the guy running with the ball <laugh>. I just lost all my words for a second, but we're, we're gonna keep moving forward. We're gonna running back

Christy Wilkie:

Maybe,

Christy Wilkie:

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. I tackled somebody Sure. That I was supposed to. And as I'm getting up my I noticed that my ring finger is sideways, like to at the knuckle and it's just broken.

Christy Wilkie:

This is one of those times I wish that we like had a video of my face.

Christy Wilkie:

Yes. Because

Christy Wilkie:

Gross.

Christy Wilkie:

I know. It was. So then me and my 14-year-old self popped it back in and then <laugh>, I started shaking my hand 'cause it hurt, obviously. But I told my coach that I was fine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that everything was fine. It's broken. Yeah. Like broken. So we taped it up and went back out and I kept playing. I was in denial that it was broken for about three weeks. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you're not shocked by this at all. <Laugh> and <laugh>. What ended up Ha I kept hitting it obviously 'cause I'm playing football. Yeah. And I was a defensive lineman and I eventually went to the doctor and they did X-rays and my knuckle was shattered. Just obliterated little kiss. Yeah. And had to have surgery. You idiot.

Christy Wilkie:

I talk about being supportive and then I'm calling you an idiot. I know. Not helpful, but seriously.

Christy Wilkie:

I know. It's so bad. I wish that I could find the X-rays 'cause I was able to keep 'em. Yeah. So they had to like drill a pin in there and like, it was just, it was bad. And so, and when they opened me up, it was even worse than they had found in the imagery. So they had to like change their whole game plan and stuff. And I was out for the whole season because of that. Oh my gosh. And it was just, it was bad. But I've always wondered what would've happened had I gone in right away. Right. And I'll never know, obviously probably would've still been out for the season. 'cause I mean it was bad. Yeah. But I definitely made things worse Yeah. By not accepting that. Right. And that's what happens when we don't accept things typically, is that things just get worse. Right. And so this is a story that I love telling kids that I work with and it just paints a really good picture of how painful or ineffective not accepting something can be.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. Oh my gosh. That is, that's a story.

Christy Wilkie:

I know it, yeah. <Laugh>.

Christy Wilkie:

But you think about, you know, radical acceptance in general is like succumbing to the fact that you understand that you don't have control. And I think that that is very scary to people where you are just allowing the universe to be like, okay, you, you, I guess they got this. I think about people with illnesses or terminal illnesses. Yeah. Cancer. You get diagnosed with cancer and if there's one thing we know about cancer, it's that it's nothing. And they're, you don't, it's not predictable. Nobody really knows what's happening. And accepting as a person, if it's your own diagnosis that you have any sort of illness is really difficult. Accepting that a family member has any sort of illness in that way is really difficult to be like, 'cause you, it, it's, I feel like you default to, okay, what are we going to do?

Christy Wilkie:

How are we going to fix this? Who do I need to call? What doctors do we need? How are we gonna get through this? And it's like, at the end of the day, you don't have control over a disease that lives inside of you. Yeah. You know, you just kind of have to accept that, you know, it is what it is and you put your faith in the doctors and that's what you do. Absolutely. And I think a, I mean, it, it's, anybody who's had that experience, I think can relate to that feeling of helplessness. And I do think if you can, if you can use the radical acceptance skill, it does take away that feeling of feeling helpless where you just because you are in control of deciding that you're not in control. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

Yep. Instead of getting, that

Christy Wilkie:

Sounds messed up, but that is what it is.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. But I mean it instead of it getting taken from you. Yep. Right. 'cause at a certain point, reality will not budge and you're going to be forced to accept it. And that is, that is painful. Right. You just talking about illnesses and doctors and stuff. It made me think of some of the people, and I, I can say this because I have a lot of people like this in my family, so I'm, I'm calling them out. Oh, perfect. People who really struggle with acceptance are lactose intolerant people. Oh,

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. Right? My gosh.

Christy Wilkie:

How many do you know that are just constantly eating ice cream? Yeah. All the time. And you're the time, aren't you lactose intolerant. And they're like, it's worth it.

Christy Wilkie:

I'll just take a pill. Right. <laugh>, it'll be fine. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

That's a great example though. That is not accepting.

Christy Wilkie:

That is a great example. Yeah. There's so many, they're like downing a glass of milk and it's like, dude, you know, that is not gonna make you feel good. <Laugh> like, doesn't matter.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. Worth it. Yeah.

Christy Wilkie:

Give me all the cheese

Christy Wilkie:

In. We've talked about dialectics a few times today, and there's a whole therapy about dialectics. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. It's called dialectical behavioral therapy. Clever name. I know. And when you are not accepting reality, that's called being willful. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Whereas accepting reality is being willing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so it's willful versus willingness. And oftentimes we struggle with willfulness, but there's a way, there's a couple of skills that I'm gonna, I wanna talk about quick to try and help with that. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And it's using your body to kind of make your brain more susceptible to acceptance. So we do this a lot already with anxiety or trying to calm down in a panic attack where we trick our brain or tell our brain that we're okay by taking deep breaths, for example. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Right. I like to call, say like, we're hacking our brain. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So the two skills are called willing hands and half smile. And full disclosure, the, when I explain this to you, it's probably going to sound ridiculous if you've never heard of it, but it does work. This is backed up by science.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh>. So the first one and if you want to practice this while I'm talking about it, is you can like close your eyes or whatever, but think of a time when you were really upset about something. Anger is a really good one to use for this. And as you're picturing that and putting yourself back into that situation, trying to just acknowledge what feelings are coming up, what things that maybe thoughts that you're having regarding that. And then as you're sitting there or standing, I want you to put your palms face out and then open and just fingers loose. This is called willing hands. You can put it on your lap. Or if you're standing just by your side and you just sit there turning your mind towards the idea of being more willing or accepting, which just means that you're just trying to accept the situation that's going on.

Christy Wilkie:

And people will start to feel better. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> about that situation. It doesn't solve the problem. No. It doesn't make it like less bad necessarily. It just allows you to move forward in that problem and accept that this is what's going on. The other thing is half smile. And it's exactly what it sounds like. So if you were to, the best way to describe this, it's hard because you can't see me <laugh>. I can So a regular smile, right? Like you can see all of your teeth and all of those things. If you just have a calm face, no emotion, and then you can move the corners of your lips just, just enough to you feel a change in your mouth. That's it. That's a half smile. And when you're sitting there using that, you're gonna start to feel more accepting of a situation. And more positive emotions are gonna come into your mind because it's telling your brain that things are calm, that things are okay. And it's just going to allow you to get through that situation better. You can use both at the same time if you want, or just one or the other. But these are two really useful skills that we teach in our dialectical behavior dialectical behavioral therapy program. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Wow. And have found really good results from that.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I think we don't always give enough credence to how the body and the brain work together where your body is doing something and it's saying something to your brain like that it it, it just is. And people kind of forget that. So if you can calm your body, your brain starts to think, oh, we're not being chased by a pack of cheetahs. You know, <laugh>. Like everything is fine. Yeah. Because I mean, essentially when you're in that state of arousal, you're, that's kind of what your brain is doing. It's like, oh my gosh, there's danger, there's danger somewhere. And you have to trick it to being like, you're fine. Yeah. You're fine. Because you think about when you're running away from somebody or when you're fearful, what's your breathing like? It's shallow, it's labored, it's fast, it's fast. And if you, if you look at even anxious people, they're shallow breathers.

Christy Wilkie:

<Laugh> 'cause they in, in that or they hold their breath or they hold their breath. And that all of those things are signaling to your brain that you are not okay. Like that something is bad. And so, like, I always like to say that because when you say take deep breaths, everyone's like, oh my god, Christie, no. Like, it doesn't work for me. I'm like, oh, doesn't it? Because I've never, I have never met a person who has sat and taken like four deep breaths and been like, I still feel really crappy. Right. Like, no. Everybody feels a little bit of relief when you can regulate your breathing a little bit. 'cause Your brain's like, oh, we're okay. Yeah. We're not in danger right now. And so that, that the connection between your brain and your body is so important. Yeah. Calm your body. Calm your brain.

Lucas Mitzel:

Yeah. And if you're, listen, you know, as you're listening to this, you can simulate this even by just purposefully taking sh really fast shallow breaths. When I do this exercise, I I start to actually like, feel really anxious doing it. Yeah. And then switch to deep breathing where the exhale is longer than the inhale. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you're gonna notice a huge change in a matter of seconds. Right. By just doing that. It's really cool.

Christy Wilkie:

I was thinking when we were talking about radical acceptance, 'cause you were talking about how if you, if you, the more you you fight it, the worse it gets. And I think that goes back to what you were saying at the very beginning too, where it's like accepting your emotions as they come instead of fighting them off and pretending like they're not happening. Yeah. Because that happens a lot where people are pusher, throwers I call 'em, where they're just like, I love that we're gonna get, we're just gonna get through it. Whatever it is, we're gonna get through it. What's the next thing? They're very task oriented. We're just gotta, and then, and you can put it off for a certain amount of time, but it doesn't go away. You're still not acknowledging what's going on in, in inside of you. Whereas if, if you can get really good at naming the emotions that you have while you're having them and acknowledging that, Hey buddy, you're there.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. I know what this is. That is a, a much more productive way of going through things than all of a sudden something is done and now it you get flooded and Yeah. Because you don't have another task to do. Whatever it was that was happening has happened. It's over, it's done with everybody's returned to their normal lives and you're just sitting there and then it just like seeps in and you cannot avoid it. 'cause They do not go away. They, it lives in there and then it just hits you like a ton of bricks and you're like, oh my God. 'cause Everyone's like, I'm doing fine, I'm doing fine, I'm doing fine. Everybody asks, how are you doing? How are you doing? Yep, fine. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then all of a sudden you're like, not fine. And you're like, oh my gosh, this is not good. And it, it really is very distressing when that happens to people. And it's very common, especially in this neck of the woods. Yeah. 'cause We aren't great at acknowledging our feelings.

Lucas Mitzel:

Absolutely. I see this a lot with grief. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> specifically in grief is a really weird experience in general, but it's one of the 'cause there, I think that there are emotions that you can successfully to a point push down and ignore Yeah. For a long time. Grief, you can't Yeah. And it will come out and it comes out sideways. Yeah. In anger or irritability or anxiousness or whatever. Yeah. It is for you. And when you are just pretending to be fine Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and not acknowledging what's going on, then you're going to like, it's, it's gonna get rough. Yeah. Potentially down the road. I've seen some, I've seen grief turn into some pretty wild things Right. In my office. Now I, on the flip side of that, if somebody passes away and you don't have a whole lot of feelings, like, and you're like, and I think Christie, you said something about this earlier, like, I should be more sad. Yeah. And you're just not feeling that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> don't judge yourself for that either. Right. Like that's, you feel what you feel. Some people are delayed grievers. Yeah. And maybe it'll come later, maybe it won't. Right. but either way we just, as long as you're letting yourself feel whatever that is, you're doing it. Right. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

I always, if you ever feel like you're, you're just having a hard time moving through the process, I think is the best way to say that. Or if you have that feeling where it's like this feeling of guilt that you're not feeling the way that you should come in and see somebody. Yeah. Like, just because you, you, you maybe don't need therapy for life. You don't need it for a year. But maybe just coming in and learning about grief and learning how to process it and, and having somebody to talk with you that you're not thinking, that you're burdening your quotes with your, with your feelings about something is really powerful. I mean, I've had people come in and just to give somebody the permission to be like, you don't have to feel terrible if you don't feel terrible. Right. If you're avoiding it, then that's a whole other issue. And I mean, you and I both know, you can tell, you can tell when someone is, is legitimately processing what's happening and it's just not the intense emotion that they thought they would have versus someone who's avoiding grieving. Right. Those are very different feelings. Yeah.

Lucas Mitzel:

Yep. And there's a variety of reasons why that might happen. Yeah. It, it doesn't mean that something is wrong with you or wrong with your child if they're not feeling the way that you think that they should feel or if you're not feeling the way that you think you should feel. Right. It could be a really good sign that you have an awesome support system. Right. Or that you've been talking about it. Right. And by doing that right away, perhaps it lowered the amount of distress that you were going to have about this situation. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So it could be that you were using really awesome skills right away. And so it's lowered the amount of distress. Yep.

Christy Wilkie:

We get a, I get a lot of people, when you talk about grief, I feel like anger is something that happens. And I think that's a really difficult emotion for people to move through, is the anger part of it. 'cause It's like, I wanna be sad, but I'm so mad at this person for either how they died or mad at the universe for taking somebody from them that you kind of have to help them chip away at that anger to get to grief. Yeah. So yeah. Just if, if you're having trouble moving through the process or you just are judging yourself, make an appointment Yep. And go and see somebody and talk through it.

Lucas Mitzel:

Absolutely. And so going on to supporting other people. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> like, I mean, on the same, same light for yourself, go and get help, but maybe encouraging other people. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> like if you know somebody who's struggling with a, a big transition, whatever that might be, having them go see somebody to talk to Yeah. Can be really helpful for that. But even just simply checking in on them Yeah. And asking how they're doing. Letting them actually be open about those things and share what's going on without judgment. Yeah. It's really important. And we've said this word I feel like a million times today, but it really important that you validate them. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, it doesn't matter if you think that this is a small thing to them, it's a big thing. Right. And that's what matters.

Christy Wilkie:

Or <laugh>, conversely, you get people that are like, wow, this is a huge change coming up for you. How are you gonna do it? How are you managing this? Right. Yeah. What, and, and it's like having this overly emotive question sequence that's like, oh my gosh, now you're taking someone who maybe wasn't worried about it, but now they are. Right.

Lucas Mitzel:

Right. Because what did I miss?

Christy Wilkie:

You made them worry. Like, oh, I'm supposed to be, I'm supposed to be really worried about that. And so like, to not do that either. Yeah. That's not helpful. Helpful. Yeah. Just like a completely nonjudgmental say, Hey, I see that you're doing whatever, how you, what's up with that? How you doing?

Lucas Mitzel:

Yeah. Yeah. For if you know that there's a big transition coming up and like talking to parents or anybody who's working with kids, giving them as much notice as possible is really helpful. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or as much notice as would be appropriate for that child because there are like, if you give too much notice Right. For it to like a really anxious child that's just, that's not a good idea. But <laugh>, and if you're wondering when the right time is you know, we could talk to a professional about that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> because the, I help people with that all of the time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> give some advice on that, but giving some notice and which allows 'em to process that information a little bit earlier. So then when the actual transition occurs, they've already got a plan, they've got some coping skills that they can use ahead and it's, the transition has just become part of the plan. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> rather than a disruption to the plan.

Christy Wilkie:

Right. And again, I go back to this, how how you deliver information is really important. So if you sit down with your kid and you're like, and I don't know what it is, let's say that you've made the decision to move and so then they've gotta leave their school. So it's a different vibe if you sit down and be like, okay, we've got really something really big we gotta talk about. And I don't know if you're gonna like it. And I know that this is gonna be, I know this is gonna be tough, but who died? Yeah. <laugh>,

Lucas Mitzel:

That's where my brain would go.

Christy Wilkie:

Yeah. Exactly. 100%. You're not anxious at all. <Laugh>. But we're, we're moving. And so you're already like implanting how they should feel about this thing without allowing them to have organic responses of their own. So to not lead them in a direction that should make them feel a certain way. Because most of the time when we are, when we deliver that, it's, I feel like it's our own emotions that are, that are getting in the way we're projecting that onto other people. Yeah. Like as a parent, like let's just say the same example. You feel some guilt about moving your kids from their school. You feel, you know, shame, whatever the reason is that you're moving and it's like you're putting that onto somebody else instead of saying, Hey, you know what? Family meeting, we're gonna move to wherever. And, and I just want you guys to talk with me about how you feel about that. Yep. Totally different feel than, oh my gosh. Yeah. The end is nie.

Lucas Mitzel:

And then letting them feel whatever that is and know that with any sort of transition there might be some negative feelings about that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> including anger or sadness, grief, those sorts of things. And just let them feel that. Yeah. Validate. Be there. Give them a hug. Don't tell 'em that they're wrong. Mm-Hmm. For feeling those things because they're not all feelings are valid. Right.

Christy Wilkie:

All feelings matter.

Lucas Mitzel:

So we always want to encourage you to ask the question, is it just me? You're likely not alone. And there is always a way to help. If anything we have talked about today resonates with you, please reach out.

Christy Wilkie:

Do you have a topic you'd like us to talk about? Message us. We would love to hear from you at, is it just me@dakotaranch.org.

Lucas Mitzel:

And don't forget to share us with your friends and family.

Announcer:

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Is It Just Me? To learn more or make an appointment for psychiatric or mental health services at Dakota Family Services, go to dakota family services.org or call 1 800 201 6495.

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