About the Hosts

Christy Wilkie provides therapy for children and adolescents, ages 5-25, who have complex behavioral health issues. She combines her extensive clinical expertise with a belief in kids, and has a unique ability to find and develop their strengths. She works hard to be an ideal therapist for her clients, doing what is best to fit their needs.

Lucas Mitzel provides therapy for children, adolescents, and adults, ages 5 - 30. He believes building relationships with clients is the most important piece of successful therapy. He loves what he does because it allows him to walk next to people he would never have met had he chosen a different profession, as they work to make amazing life changes. He has the honor of meeting people at their worst, all while watching them grow into the people they’ve always wanted to be.

Transcript
Beyond the Labels: Dismantling Myths About Mental Health

Featuring Christy Wilkie, LCSW, and Lucas Mitzel, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Announcer (00:00):

This episode of, is It Just Me, is brought to you by Dakota Family Services, your trusted partner in mental and behavioral health, whether you need in-person or virtual care, the team of professionals at Dakota Family Services is dedicated to supporting children, adolescents, and adults in their journey to better mental health,

Christy (00:21):

Disrupting life patterns and life routines that aren't serving you.

Lucas (00:26):

It's how we feel that keeps us going.

Christy (00:29):

You can be a masterpiece and a work of art all at the same time.

Lucas (00:40):

Hey everyone, I'm Lucas. And I'm Christy. And you're listening to the, Is It Just Me podcast.

Christy (00:44):

Where we aim to provide education, decrease the stigma, and expel some myths around mental health.

Lucas (00:49):

Christy, is it just me or do we hear a lot of things about mental illness that we are not sure are true?

Christy (00:53):

I think that that happens a lot. Yeah.

Lucas (00:56):

Yeah. I think the two big things that we are gonna talk about as part of our goals

Christy (01:01):

Look at us.

Lucas (01:01):

We're gonna talk about stigma, myths.

Christy (01:03):

Reaching goals, look at us.

Lucas (01:04):

Stigma and myths today. And they're very intertwined. So, you can't really talk about one without the other, butum.

Christy (01:10):

Like peanut butter and jelly.

Lucas (01:11):

Kind of. Yeah. What <laugh> what, what is what is stigma? Christy?

Christy (01:17):

Stigma is a widely held belief about something that may or may not be true. I guess in, in the case of mental health, I think there's a lot of stigma around people who go to see a therapist means that they're like crazy or that, like something is terribly, terribly wrong. Or just commonly held beliefs that people have about something.

Lucas (01:38):

Yeah, typically in a negative fashion.

Christy (01:40):

Yeah.

Lucas (01:40):

Right. We don't call it stigma if people are thinking positive things about something <laugh>.

Christy (01:44):

Right.

Lucas (01:45):

So a lot of times there's this, there's like a mark of shame or disgrace associated with whatever it is. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that's kind of the hallmark of what stigma is and does to people, is it makes people feel very ashamed. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> of whatever the topic is.

Christy (01:57):

Right.

Lucas (01:57):

There's three types of stigma and face.

Christy (02:02):

Wow.

Lucas (02:03):

I wish everybody could see the face that she just made.

Christy (02:05):

I was like, this is why we should video record this. 'cause I was like, there are.

Lucas (02:08):

Right.

Christy (02:08):

Cool.

Lucas (02:09):

So there's, there's, oh my goodness. There's public stigma, self-stigma and structural stigma. So public is just how the public perceives things. Maybe at public attitudes towards other people or a cer certain topic. Self-Stigma is our negative attitudes and internalized shame that we have about ourselves.

Christy (02:27):

Oh gosh.

Lucas (02:27):

And we're experiencing, and then there's the structural, which is the more systemic sort of stigma, which might involve policies of government organizations that might limit things. So like examples of that could be like, we run into this a lot with mental health in the military.

Christy (02:41):

Oh, sure.

Lucas (02:42):

People are really worried about if they have certain diagnoses or any at all, they can't join the military or they would get kicked out of the military. And for a long time there were a lot of policies that, that made that true. Or like lack of coverage for services with insurance or we're not gonna get down this rant, but insurance telling us how many sessions we can have with a client. Like they're telling us how long it's gonna take for them to get better <laugh>.

Christy (03:09):

'Cause 'cause We, 'cause we don't know.

Lucas (03:10):

Right. Right. <Laugh>,

Christy (03:12):

I love it. When I showed my podcast and I learned something.

Lucas (03:14):

It's great.

Christy (03:15):

Like, that's good for you.

Lucas (03:17):

<Laugh>. You're welcome.

Christy (03:18):

Thank you. Thank you.

Lucas (03:20):

Uh, yeah, I of course. 'cause I can't do, I, I love statistics, so I had to look stuff up, but we,

Christy (03:26):

Oh gosh, here we go.

Lucas (03:27):

But it was interesting because I was trying to find like, what's the most stigmatized mental health disorder out there?

Christy (03:32):

Ooh.

Lucas (03:32):

Yeah. Just like if there was any research on it, go for it.

Christy (03:36):

I would say schizophrenia.

Lucas (03:38):

You nailed it.

Christy (03:38):

Yeah. Did I really?

Lucas (03:40):

Yeah <laugh>.

Christy (03:40):

Look at me.

Lucas (03:41):

But there was a study done, I think that was in Yale. I could have gotten that wrong. That, that came up with that. The problem with the studies though, is that we have over like 300 different, or about 300 or something like that, mental health disorders. And so none of the studies are able to look at all 300. And then survey people about their views on it. So it takes like the most popular ones and then ranks them that way. And that can change from location to location. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, because stigma is very dependent on social norms, which can vary from region to region. General understanding of the mental illness, like the more complex and less talked about the mental illness might, it might become more stigmatized or how media has covered it. And then what media has said about that mental illness or how it's portrayed it, all of this can play a big role. So like one done in the US said schizophrenia, whereas one done in France was talking about alcohol disorder or alcohol abuse disorders. So it just depends.

Christy (04:38):

Yeah. Well, you look at, I think the thing about schizophrenia and why I guess I went there is that I think it intrigues many people because there's just not really an understanding how the brain can work that way. And it is portrayed in a lot of movies and TV shows of like being these super crazy people that can't function in society and whatever. And that's just not true. But I, I think they're, they, it's just a prevalent diagnosis that tends to be characterized in media.

Lucas (05:08):

Yeah. It, it is really fascinating. And of course, they show these bizarre presentations Mm-Hmm. Of it. And tend to make it seem like they're very dangerous. Uh when they're not. Right. But yeah, I, schizophrenia is a big one for a lot of it for a lot of places.

Christy (05:24):

Well, and like all mental illnesses, illnesses?

Lucas (05:27):

Illnesses

Christy (05:28):

Yeah, sure. Anyway, they're on a spectrum. Right. Ev everything is mild, moderate, severe. We, when we diagnose, we diagnose mild, moderate, severe. And so not, not every case of schizophrenia is going to be the one that we have in our head that is like, you know, people talking to themselves or seeing things or hallucinating or whatever that they're doing. Not all schizophrenia looks like that.

Lucas (05:49):

In fact.

Christy (05:50):

Most of it doesn't.

Lucas (05:51):

I've never worked with somebody who has schizophrenia who's been like that.

Christy (05:53):

No, I would Agree.

Lucas (05:54):

So they've all been very, very kind people <laugh>.

Christy (05:57):

It's true. Yeah.

Lucas (05:59):

So if anything, they're more scared.

Christy (06:01):

Yeah. Than anything.

Lucas (06:02):

So, why is it important to talk about this stuff? Like why, why does this matter?

Christy (06:05):

Well, I think mental health matters all the time. But it matters to me because I think that the myths and the stigma, two things I think get in the way of people accessing services. Well, actually they're both get in the way of people accessing services, but for different reasons. I feel like for stigma, it's people feel like they're going to be judged or looked down upon, or that there's something innately wrong with them if they are coming to therapy or they're on a medication. And I don't, I want to get rid of the shame that's associated with that. And the other part, I think with the myths about some of the ones that I'm thinking of, people don't often take their symptoms seriously. And they downplay what's happening. And so that gets in the way of them getting services. 'cause They're like, well, it could be worse. I'm not, I'm going to work. I can't be that depressed. Right. And that's just not the case. And so I kind of wanna give people an idea of really the range of mental health, mental illness and what that looks like, because it's just, I feel like people don't give themselves enough credit when they feel crappy <laugh>.

Lucas (07:08):

Right. Yeah. I mean, it can, we, we talked a bit about the systemic portion of what stigma and the myths associated with mental health can do for people. But like personally speaking from, with like that self stigma, right? Like, you can have beliefs that you, you're never gonna succeed Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because you have whatever diagnosis, or you're gonna have friends and family who maybe don't take you seriously or just think that you're exaggerating Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or just not understand. Or even want to understand. Because you have this label. And so, trying to expel these myths and talk through all of this stigma,our hope is, and I'm speaking for Christy here, is that,I'm gonna try to <laugh>,is that.

Christy (07:48):

Oh, good.

Lucas (07:48):

Yeah. That we can, that people will feel more comfortable coming in and getting help so they don't have to feel that way. Because you, we've said this a million times, you don't have to feel this way.

Christy (07:57):

No. You don't have to live miserably.

Lucas (07:58):

Right.

Christy (07:59):

And I think sometimes people don't recognize that they're not well because they, they think that it's so common. I mean, we've talked about this when it comes to like, parents that bring their kids in. And you know, you're going through the symptomology and they're like, oh no. Like, am I, am I anxious? And then you just kind of see that light go off and it's like, yeah. And you, it's not normal. To be worried all of the time.

Lucas (08:22):

All the time.

Christy (08:23):

<Laugh> about everything irrationally. <Laugh>. So let's, let's talk about it. You know?

Lucas (08:29):

So like I said, there's about 300 different disorders. We are not going to get through all of them. We're not even gonna scratch the surface.

Christy (08:35):

This podcast is 12 hours long. <Laugh>

Lucas (08:38):

Right. That would be wow. So I just off the bat, like if we might even have to have a part two, that would be kind of fun.

Christy (08:43):

Sure.

Lucas (08:44):

Ubut if there are any disorders that we don't get to that you guys really want to hear about, please let us know. We can talk about those.

Christy (08:50):

Because I promise you that we will talk about anything.

Lucas (08:52):

Yeah. <laugh>.

Christy (08:54):

To a fault.

Lucas (08:54):

And we wanna talk about what you wanna hear about. So.

Christy (08:56):

Right! That would be, that'd be beneficial.

Lucas (08:58):

So I think first, I, I just covered, I brought up some a list of just some of the more common ones that we see. And I think starting off anxiety.

Christy (09:06):

Oh, good. <Laugh>. Yep. That's a, that's a great place to start.

Lucas (09:09):

Yeah. So what are some myths or stigmas that you hear regarding anxiety?

Christy (09:15):

I would say that anxious people can't leave their house. That's a big one. And there is a subset for that called agoraphobia. It's an anxiety related disorder, but it's not, that's not what anxiety is.

Lucas (09:26):

No. And anxiety can present. This is, this is gonna be a theme throughout because we've, we've talked about before how everything is kind of on a spectrum. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that spectrum could even look different depending on the diagnosis. Uh it's not always just on a straight line. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But just because one person has agoraphobia doesn't mean it looks the same. And so even if you, like, Chrisy and I both have anxiety.

Christy (09:48):

Yay.

Lucas (09:48):

But I promise you it looks different. Yeah. And we handle it differently. And it comes in at different times. There's different triggers and there are times where we're experiencing the exact same thing, and I'm totally fine and Christy is not <laugh> and the other way around all the time. Right.

Christy (10:05):

So true.

Lucas (10:05):

And because of that, I think that another myth that comes in is that people are just overreacting.

Christy (10:10):

Yep. That's a huge one.

Lucas (10:11):

And they just need to get over it. Right. If you just calm down, Christy.

Christy (10:15):

Yeah. I tell you, if if I, if I told people to calm down and that worked, I'd be out of a job.

Lucas (10:20):

Right. Wouldn't that be great though?

Christy (10:20):

Yes, it would be. I was just thinking because it's, it's funny to me, Lucas was talking about how, how, how our anxiety presents differently. This podcast is a perfect example of how that works. Because Lucas's Lucas manages his anxiety by over preparing for things. In my opinion, he over prepares for things <laugh>.

Lucas (10:40):

I do, I agree with you.

Christy (10:41):

But he just, he feels better if he's got like it all written down or whatever. And for me, I, the longer I can put off thinking about it or doing anything about it, I come in here and wing it. I have no idea what he has on his computer <laugh>, because that's just easier for me to, to talk to him. Like we're just talking in our offices. Right. And I think that's a, 'cause a lot of people, another myth think a lot of people think that people who are anxious are like this super high strung type a sort of personality. Organized calendars, color coded. And it can look like that for sure. But it could be a disorganized mess. Enter Christy Wilkie <laugh> that just like planning things and organizing makes me very anxious. Like, I can't look at a cal that I get zero amount of relief by looking at a calendar. I look at a calendar and if it's got stuff on it, I freak out <laugh>. I just cannot deal. So not us tight Bs. We are, we there's a place for us in the anxiety world.

Lucas (11:37):

Absolutely. And I think that goes into another one that all people who are anxious are just control freaks.

Christy (11:44):

Oh yeah.

Lucas (11:44):

And they're not.

Christy (11:45):

No.

Lucas (11:46):

Uh there, there are some. But there are also a lot of people who like the idea of controlling the situation Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> would make their head explode. So they let go of all of it and don't wanna make any decisions.

Christy (11:58):

Right and I, I think that that is anxiety in one way or another is about control somehow. But it's, it's how you manage to get that control that looks different. Like I am not, I am not all of the important people in my life are type A planners because I need that to balance.

Lucas (12:17):

That was, that's lucky.

Christy (12:18):

I know. But I think that that's by design kind of.

Lucas (12:21):

Yeah. Maybe,

Christy (12:21):

You know, 'cause I, because I kind of balance them out and they kind of balance me out.

Lucas (12:24):

Fair enough. Yeah.

Christy (12:25):

But like, if, if I can relinquish control with people that I trust and know that they can just tell me where to go, that's what it is. And other people who are anxious need to have control of that situation so that they, they try to mi mitigate risk anywhere they can. It's like, if I control everything possible, then nothing is gonna come into my space that's gonna make me feel anxious. And it's just two sides of the coin. It doesn't look a certain way.

Lucas (12:50):

Yeah. What about when you hear people say, well, they're just, they're just stressed. It's just stress.

Christy (12:55):

They are <laugh> about, about everything. But if you have prolonged stress that we could call chronic, that's probably anxiety <laugh>. Yeah. It's not just, it's not just stressed out about something. And it's like, 'cause I, I think people al every, almost everybody almost experiences anxiety at some point. Right? Like, you get anxious for a first day of school, you get anxious for a first day at work, you get anxious about going on a first date. And those are all appropriate times when you should feel anxiety. Right. And so I think a lot of people who have never experienced anxiety just think that that's what it is. Like, well, what are you worried about? Oh my gosh. Another myth is that there is something that you should be worried about. You could be worried about. You don't have to be worried about anything. It's just there. It doesn't go away.

Lucas (13:38):

My, I, I saw a TikTok a while back that displayed this perfectly and it was a guy and he was about to go out and then his anxiety pops up and says, well, where are you going? What are you doing? And he goes, I'm just going out with some friends. And anxiety goes, well, aren't you worried? And he goes, well, about what? And anxiety just shrugs. And it's like, I don't know, <laugh>. And then the guy's like, good point, <laugh>.

Christy (13:58):

Yeah. We gotta worry about something.

Lucas (14:00):

That's anxiety.

Christy (14:01):

Yeah. Totally. I think another myth, and this is probably about all the diagnoses that you're gonna, that you're gonna find is that, that you could tell somebody is anxious. Like you can see it. Like you should be able to tell if someone's depressed or tell if someone's anxious. And if it's your partner or your colleague or whatever that you see every day, you probably do, I can tell when Lucas is anxious, but if it's just, if he was just walking around in the world, if any of you saw Lucas walking out around the world, you would not have any idea that he was an anxious person at all. I have, Amy is our colleague around, and I, and I, I told her when I told her I was anxious, she was like, no, you're not. And I was like, I'm too. She goes, there's

Lucas (14:37):

How dare you?

Christy (14:39):

She was like, there's no way. Because I have a relatively outgoing personality and I like to be around people and do presentations and that sort of thing. That doesn't mean that I am not internally freaking out.

Lucas (14:50):

Yeah. Like a, like a duck on the water.

Christy (14:52):

Yeah.

Lucas (14:53):

Yeah.

Christy (14:53):

Yeah.

Lucas (14:54):

Absolutely. People have mentioned that to me as well when I mentioned that I'm anxious and they're like, you just, you just look super calm all the time. Mm-Hmm. I'm like, but I'm exploding inside. And part of my anxiety is to control my reactions to things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because I can't let anybody know that something is wrong, because then there's a whole lot of distortions that might go on. <laugh> because of my anxiety.

Christy (15:13):

Right, exactly.

Lucas (15:14):

So and then also like when you say like, well, you're just stressed or like Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, whatever, that you're minimizing somebody's experience. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. And that's very unhelpful. And it makes them not want to talk about it. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, which is the opposite of what we're trying to do because there's another myth that talking about your anxiety makes it worse.

Christy (15:31):

Right. No.

Lucas (15:32):

Nope<laugh>. That is the opposite of what's true. Oftentimes when you get it out get your thoughts out, it's, it makes it better. 'cause You hear it and you're like, oh no, that is ridiculous. I do this to Christy all the time. I just.

Christy (15:45):

All of the time. Yep.

Lucas (15:46):

I'll pop in and I'll be like, I just, I am having this anxious thought and I just need to get it out. And so then I'll say it, I'm like, yep, that makes no sense. And I'll just walk away <laugh>. And she's like, okay, <laugh>.

Christy (15:54):

Or be like, does it sound as stupid as it does to you now out loud as it did to me. Yep. Good point. Good point. And I think I, a lot of, a lot of anxiety is also about clarity. 'cause Anxious people just worry about what if, like, what if this person is mad at me? What if I said this and somebody thought this, and then now this, this, this is happening. And it's like, go to the person. Talk about your anxious thought. Get clarity. 'cause Most of the time those thoughts that you're having aren't true <laugh>. I always, I'm gonna throw Lucas under the bus again.

Lucas (16:24):

Oh, no.

Christy (16:24):

Well, because it was, it was just so funny because he, when he, when I leave for the day and everyone was like, goodbye Christy, goodbye Christy. Bye Christy. And then they're like, he's like, there was a time there, Christy, where I, if people don't say goodbye to me when I leave the office, I know. I just assume that I'm in trouble and that they're mad at me. And I was like, are you dumb <laugh>. And it has nothing to do with that, but it, but that was an anxious thought that you had. And I was like, Lucas, that's not true. And you're like, I know <laugh>. But it's still a thought I had.

Lucas (16:51):

Right. But then getting it out made it made it better. Right. I don't even know how long I was holding onto that one <laugh>, but it, as soon as it came outta my mouth, I was like, oh, okay.

Christy (17:01):

Nope, that's not it.

Lucas (17:01):

So talking about it makes it better. Which is why we do what we do. Depression.

Christy (17:07):

Oh, good.

Lucas (17:08):

There's a

Christy (17:09):

<Laugh> written all the, all the high notes today.

Lucas (17:12):

Right. There's a lot of them for depression.

Christy (17:13):

Yeah. There are.

Lucas (17:14):

Um a big one is, well, it's just, it's all in your head. Yeah. I mean, it, it is.

Christy (17:21):

100% <laugh>.

Lucas (17:21):

That doesn't make it any, like, what was that supposed to mean? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Like, it's not any less. Like Yeah. Mental health is in your brain. Mm-Hmm. Shocker. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it's not just like, what that's implying is that you can just choose to not be depressed.

Christy (17:33):

Right. Not a choice.

Lucas (17:33):

Yeah. If that were the case, everybody would've chosen not to be. Because it sucks.

Christy (17:38):

Yep. Totally. I think another common myth with depression is that you just have this view of somebody who's like curled up in a hooded sweatshirt in the corner of a room and crying all the time. And it's like, that is not what depression looks like. Depression can look like irritability, it can look like aggression. And again, with the spectrum, mild, moderate, severe, not everybody's gonna have severe depression. And with the media, that's what it portrays it as is like these super depressed people that are just like doom and gloom walking around all the time. There are tons of people that walk around with depression every day that you would have no idea.

Lucas (18:16):

Yeah. And so because of all that media attention, which is a double-edged sword, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, like, it's good. I want us to be talking about these things, but then the media doesn't do the greatest job of portraying it. So you have that comparison going on. And so then people are like, well, I don't need, I'm not that bad, so I don't need to go get, get help. When in reality, if they come into my office and they're like, this is what's going on, I'm like, oh man, it is bad.

Christy (18:38):

Yep. <Laugh>, <laugh> or, I, I don't think even with depression, I don't think that people understand that it, there's a major depressive disorder. Sure. But there are other mood disorders that could be happening that maybe aren't as severe or that you maybe haven't taken into account that even exist, I think of pervasive depressive disorder. Y Which used to be called dysthymia. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, which is just being like a little bit depressed all of the time. And that's a thing. And I, it's like you don't, you don't have to be in the depths of depression and having suicidal thoughts and ideation in order to access services or feel better.

Lucas (19:13):

Yeah. Speaking of, yeah. It is not normal to have suicidal thoughts. That is a huge myth. Yep. It's, I can't tell you I wish I got paid every single time I heard that one. Not normal. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, a normal brain does not want to end its life.

Christy (19:26):

No. Or <laugh>. I had a thought,

Lucas (19:30):

Let me rephrase that quick. Okay. A healthy brain. Oh, there you go. Doesn't want to. I don't like that I use nor normal, but.

Christy (19:35):

Yeah. Language matters.

Lucas (19:37):

It does.

Christy (19:37):

But way to catch yourself and correct yourself.

Lucas (19:39):

Thank you.

Christy (19:39):

I'm proud of you. I had a client the other day who said, you know, sometimes I'm just driving down the road and I just think, what if I just pulled my car into the other, into the other lane? And I said, that is not a normal thought. <Laugh> a healthy thought. That's not a healthy thought. Look at me learning.

Lucas (19:54):

See look at us growing.

Christy (19:55):

<Laugh>

Lucas (19:55):

In front of everyone.

Christy (19:58):

I know, I love this for us. So that's, most people don't have that thought go through their head. And it's Yes, it is an intrusive thought and no, and, and just because you don't plan on acting on it doesn't mean that the thought should be there.

Lucas (20:12):

I I will, I'll tell people like the brain's primary function is to keep you alive. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and comfortable. Right. And so if it comes up with the idea to override its primary function Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, something's not going right. And we can fix that.

Christy (20:25):

Yep, he wires are crossed somewhere.

Lucas (20:27):

Yep, here's something going wrong and it's not your fault. But we don't also, like, let's not sit in that or like let that continue to happen. It doesn't have to.

Christy (20:34):

No. But I always tell people like, if you find yourself that you're like snapping at people, or a lot of people just say, oh, I just have a short fuse. Well, is it that you have a short fuse or is there something else going on that's causing you to have a shorter fuse?

Lucas (20:48):

Right. Yeah. What about going along with just calm down. Well just think happy thoughts.

Christy (20:55):

Yeah. Positive. Think you just need a little sunshine. You'll be fine. And not this.

Lucas (21:00):

Inspirational quote will help

Christy (21:03):

Yes. Exactly. Here have a cookie. But we'll feed the depression away from you.

Lucas (21:07):

Oh my God.

Christy (21:08):

And that's not to say that sunshine doesn't help because it does,

Lucas (21:10):

It does. Absolutely.

Christy (21:12):

See Touching Grass, the podcast episode <laugh>. But it's, it's not the end all be all. I mean, we talked about that in our suicide podcast too, where it's like, people are just like, Ugh, we just have to get to the springtime when it's, it's, it's just dark outside and and everybody tries to explain away why they're feeling crappy. Except for a lot of times the explanation we don't get to is that you're experiencing a mental health issue. If you can find 18 other reasons, oh, it's the weather. Oh, well there's a lot going on in the world. Or my kids are in school, I'm super stressed out. There's, we just have a lot going on.

Lucas (21:48):

Yeah, 'cause a lot of these myths and stigmas, their primary thing that they're doing is minimizing your symptoms. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> so that you don't go get help. And like, if you just went and talked to somebody and maybe got on some medications, depending on what's going on, like this could improve.

Christy (22:02):

Right, and I promise you, if you come in, if you come into one of our offices and we do a diagnostic assessment, and what you're experiencing is like normal life stuff, we will tell you that. We'll say this is you're, yeah. This is some normal life stuff, but it is stressful, so let's talk it out. Or we're gonna say, this is kind of diagnosable and is kind of a big deal. Like, we're not, we're not gonna make you get services if you're not, if you can't benefit from them. You know? But sometimes you just have to go in and get the validation that be like, is is this normal <laugh>? Am I, am I having thoughts that I should be having? Go get it checked out.

Lucas (22:35):

Yeah. Another one that I come across a lot is that I'm never going to get rid of my depression. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or that it's always going to come back. For recurrent.

Christy (22:45):

Yep. Not true.

Lucas (22:46):

Yeah. Number one, you, you don't know if it's gonna come back. So let's not just assume that. It might. And if it does, we'll kick its butt again. But you can get rid of it.

Christy (22:54):

You can. And I think that is the other part is that you have to be on medication for the rest of your life. And that is also not true. A major depressive episode lasts two weeks to be diagnosable. Correct?

Lucas (23:03):

Correct.

Christy (23:03):

Yeah. And so you think of two weeks, it could just be a two week episode. It doesn't have to, some people have a more chronic, severe reoccurring depression. That is for sure. True. But it could just be that you have a major depressive episode and it doesn't come back again. And Lucas said this one time to me and it just stuck. 'cause He said, once you know the way out, the roadmap is there, in your brain. And so it's like once you, if you've gotten out of it once before, you brain knows the way out of it again. So not to be scared if it comes, you can't live fearing for the next major depressive episode. 'cause You know, you know the way out. You know what it feels like. You know how to get out of it. You get the help that you need and, and you can get through it.

Lucas (23:46):

Yeah. Oftentimes with the, I like to think of depression with as like a tunnel. Like you're going through a very, very dark tunnel. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And oftentimes those tunnels will get shorter. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the more times you get out of it, because that pathway just keeps getting walked down and you know what to do. So it can get better. And and it will.

Christy (24:05):

It will. And if you ever have the feeling that it can't get better, that your life isn't going to get better, you have a major depressive disorder. And you need to come in and see somebody. Because we need you here.

Lucas (24:18):

Yeah, absolutely. And if anybody's having any suicidal thoughts, please go talk to somebody. Because that is again, not healthy. Yeah

Christy (24:26):

Yes, You are. Look at you <laugh>. He caught himself. He was gonna say normal again.

Lucas (24:31):

I, yeah. Thanks for

Christy (24:32):

Just putting you on blast.

Lucas (24:33):

I love it. <Laugh>. It's the best bipolar disorder.

Christy (24:38):

Oh dear <laugh>.

Lucas (24:40):

Yeah. Why do you say that?

Christy (24:40):

Well, because bipolar, it's another one that's, that is characterized in the media of like these huge ups and downs and like, going from extraordinarily, what we call manic is when you're doing a whole bunch of stuff that you wouldn't normally do, you're overspending, you are, you have a lot of energy, you're not sleeping. It's, there's a lot of unhealthy decisions that can be made during mania. There's aggression that can happen during mania, and then you go to this like boom, super, super depressive thing. And I think a lot of people think too that if they had that, that they would be really aware that that's what they have.

Lucas (25:16):

Right. Yeah.

Christy (25:16):

And it's just, that's just not how it presents.

Lucas (25:19):

No, it's not. And especially in our area, bipolar disorder gets stigmatized and there's so much misunderstanding around it because our weather can be slightly erratic. And go from like 80 degrees one day to like 20 degrees the next Mm-Hmm. Right. And so people will be like, oh, North Dakota is so bipolar. That's not what bipolar disorder is <laugh>. It's not just like we're moody.

Christy (25:43):

Right. No.

Lucas (25:44):

You have these cycles that a manic episode, a full manic episode. Then there's hypomanic, we're not gonna get into all that. But is like about seven days long that you have to be experiencing this in order for it to be a manic episode. And then again, it's two weeks for a depression. Like that's not moodiness. That is a significant amount of time. In those stages. And they don't have to happen one after the other. It's not like you're manic, you're only manic or you're only depressed. Like there are, you can be in the middle. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. There are a lot of times people might even feel it revving for like months. Where you're going into a manic episode or the depression could stay there for a very long time.

Christy (26:21):

Yeah. I think that's where the, I think not there's not a problem, but I think that's where people get misdiagnosed because you spend most of your time, most people who have a bipolar disorder spend most of their time in depression. And so they'll just think that they're depressed. And so they get on these anti-depression medications and they're like, well, they didn't work.

Lucas (26:40):

<Laugh> in fact probably made it worse.

Christy (26:42):

Yeah. Probably. And it could totally have made it worse. Like, well, my depression medica, it doesn't work for me. And it's like, well then maybe that's not what it is. And so then when they get into this manic episode, they're just like, oh, I'm in. I just, I'm just in a good mood. I'm just in a good mood.

Lucas (26:55):

Everything's better.

Christy (26:55):

Everything's better. And that's fine. Like those, these are my good days, <laugh>. I was like, yeah. I mean, I bet it does feel better, but we have a cycle here.

Lucas (27:04):

Right. And not only are you better, but like, wow, <laugh>, that was, that's this's a lot of energy.

Christy (27:10):

But but now you also have a lot of tattoos in piercings, <laugh>. And you went and spent a bunch of money.

Lucas (27:15):

Yeah and you're not sleeping

Christy (27:16):

You're overeating or you're over, you know, well, all of those things.

Lucas (27:19):

Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> a lot of times I think that people, there's a myth that mania is just fun and exciting and you're just in this super great mood all the time. And that's not, it's can be really scary.

Christy (27:29):

It is.

Lucas (27:29):

For a lot of people

Christy (27:30):

It is. It is v very scary espe I mean, for the person who's experiencing it and also for the people around them. Because even when you get somebody who's in a, in a manic state, even if they're in therapy and they can understand that they know what comes after mania Is depression. And it's, and that can be scary to be like, oh, now I gotta go back into this depressive state. You know? But especially when mania is aggressive that it mean, it it is, it is detrimental to relationships and families and all sorts of things.

Lucas (27:59):

Yeah. I, there's been some media coverage of bipolar disorder. I can't think of the show that really portrayed it, but a lot of times when they portray bipolar disorder, it's the most extreme cases. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because that's what's exciting. And it's, they'll portray these people who are like obsessed over a certain topic and they can't get off of it. And they're talking crazy fast and they have not slept for days and it looks like they're on drugs. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And like they are super impulsive and just won't stop to like, listen to anything. And that is not what it normally looks like.

Christy (28:31):

No, it's not.

Lucas (28:32):

It is much more covert. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> than that where maybe they, they're not like crazy hyper, but they just can't sleep and they don't feel tired. And so it's not necessarily hyper, but just, I'm not tired, I'm fine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's a, that's a big warning sign. Like if you're getting two hours of sleep and you feel good. <Laugh> maybe come in.

Christy (28:53):

Right, and sometimes people who are, even if they know that that's what they have, they almost need like validation that that's what it is. 'cause They're not always sure <laugh>. If that's what it is. Someone come in this week and they're like, I think I'm manic. It's like, well what's giving you that? What's giving you that impression? Well, I baked a bunch of brownies and I did five loads of laundry and I'm speaking really quickly. And then I thought about doing this really weird thing, but I told myself that maybe I'm manic and so I shouldn't do that thing. And then, and said, well, how long have you been sleeping? Well, I went to bed last night at two and I got up today at five and I'm fine. I was like, okay. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. I mean that's probably where we're at. <Laugh>. But it's nothing. But that was nothing crazy. You know what I mean? Like, those are just things that on any normal day, like maybe people would do, but it was out of character for her.

Lucas (29:40):

Yeah. That kind of goes into another thing I was thinking of where we maybe have touched on it already, but just that bipolar disorder is predictable. Like the cycles. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> are predictable and they're not. You can go a pretty long time without having any sort of major fluctuation. Like Christy had said earlier, like, the people will stay in depression a lot of the time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then we'll just hop up into mania. Sometimes it's a slow, like, I call it like a revving of the engine. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And because of that too, like when people are depressed and they start to feel better now they're scared they're going into mania. Whereas maybe the depression is lifting, maybe we're stabilizing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> not every happy mood is mania.

Christy (30:20):

Right. Yeah.

Lucas (30:20):

So like you're allowed to not feel depressed, <laugh> <laugh>. And have it not be pathologized.

Christy (30:26):

Right. Yep. You could, you could just have a good day and that's okay. But I think coming into to therapy and talking with somebody about it and, and understanding what is just a good day and, and when that turns into mania is super important to do. 'cause It's like you're allowed to have a good day. You don't want, don't want you to think that you're having some sort of mental health crisis all the time if that's not what it is.

Lucas (30:50):

Right. Yeah. Another myth is that bipolar disorder, like you can cure it or that you can Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> essentially stop treatment when it starts to stabilize.

Christy (30:59):

Let's not do that.

Lucas (30:59):

And please don't. <Laugh> Whether or not it's therapy or medications. It is something that you would have to treat with medications. Mm-Hmm. Therapy can help you really kind of narrow down what those triggers are and what your warning signs are and help you identify skills to try and combat those things when they start to pop up. Medications, do a lot of work at the, at making that easier to do. And just because you're feeling better doesn't mean that we we're done. Like, you're not cured.

Christy (31:27):

Can, can we just, can we just blanket statement that for like all of these things because that.

Lucas (31:31):

That is fair.

Christy (31:31):

That is something that we see all the time where people are like, well, I'm feeling better and so I wanna get off my medication. And you are in charge of what goes into your body 100%. But there is a right way to come off your medications. To see what that looks like. That is going to be better for your body. It's gonna be better for your brain. And you just need to do it under, under the supervision of your medical professional. You should never just stop your meds cold turkey. But we see that a lot where people are like, well, I'm feeling better so I'm just gonna stop 'em. It's like, well, you're feeling better probably 'cause you're taking them <laugh>, you know? So, but, but, but let's see. Like if you wanna come off your medications, let's, let's see what that looks like. But let's do it in a way that's not going to take you from a hundred percent to like negative 2%.

Lucas (32:15):

Right. Especially with bipolar disorder, a lot of those medications, if you just cut 'em cold Turkey is gonna, is gonna cause some pretty big problems.

Christy (32:22):

Right. It's da it's dangerous.

Lucas (32:24):

Yeah, actually definingly Yeah. Yep. Another thing that, and this could also be a blanket statement too, but it's not just because you start therapy or you are starting medications. It's not just like all of a sudden we're done having cycles. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. <Laugh>. It's going to, I like to, when I picture bipolar disorder, I, I kind of draw it on my whiteboard as like, like waves. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> going up and down, up and down. And those waves are really big at first and far apart and they're gonna start to shrink. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and become more along the line of stable. You still might have small ups and downs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the goal is to get it as obviously as stable as possible so that there's not that, but it takes time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it can take a long time for certain like months Yeah. To get it to a point where you feel like, oh, I'm like really feeling good.

Christy (33:10):

Yeah or it gets to the point where you feel like you are, you have some control or awareness of what's going on in your body. Because I think that is huge too. And when you start, when you have these tsunami like waves at the beginning, it gets harder for people sometimes to, to know if, 'cause it's not a huge wave, they're just maybe just a ripple. If that is where people are like, am I in a matic episode <laugh>? You know, because they do get harder to really identify where you're at. But once you kind of get in tune with your body and you work with somebody to, to help you figure out and maybe even come up with what are your patterns? When this is right. When, when your brain is, wherever it is, it is manageable. It is not a, people get scared of bipolar disorder I feel like.

Lucas (33:55):

Yeah. They do.

Christy (33:55):

And it's just not something that you need to be scared of. 'cause It is, it's 100% manageable. You can live a perfectly normal life having bipolar disorder.

Lucas (34:04):

Yep. I know many people who have bipolar disorder that they're not just because of my job, but personally I was like, who have..

Christy (34:11):

No kidding you two.

Lucas (34:12):

Who have very functional lives and are doing really well.

Christy (34:15):

Totally.

Lucas (34:16):

They just stay on their treatment plan. And they're great. So PTSD.

Christy (34:20):

Ooh.

Lucas (34:20):

Also has a lot of you, your reactions to every time I say diagnosis.

Christy (34:23):

I know I, because I get so excited. <Laugh>

Lucas (34:25):

Yeah, I.

Christy (34:25):

Liked, I like talking about this stuff.

Lucas (34:27):

Like, ooh or Oh dear. There's a lot of myths about PTSD. We could probably talk about PTSD myths for a very long time.

Christy (34:35):

We could.

Lucas (34:36):

But a big one that I see is, and we talked about this a bit in our PTSD episode, was that only people in the military who are people who have been involved in war can have PTSD. Yeah. And that just is not true. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. PTSD is actually a lot easier to develop than people think it is.

Christy (34:53):

Correct. Yep. And I think another big one is that you have to have a major event in your life. That will cause you trauma and it's like, like a car crash or somebody gets murdered or like something dramatic and it's like, it does not have to be a hugely dramatic incident in order to develop PTSD syndrome symptoms.

Lucas (35:15):

You could just hear a story and develop PTSD symptoms from that. It's called vicarious trauma. And therapists have to watch themselves for that all the time because we're hearing trauma stories all the time. But yeah, it's way easier than just, well, everybody who doesn't go to war is probably safe. That's just not the case.

Christy (35:33):

Or I didn't go to war so I should be fine.

Lucas (35:35):

Right. <Laugh> Right. Which goes into another one. Like you're just overreacting.

Christy (35:39):

That yep. You hear that a lot.

Lucas (35:40):

Um and similar to like anxiety, depression, like the overreacting stigma is kind of blanket. Over a lot of them. But when it comes to something that, like maybe someone, like somebody thinks, well that's not that big of a deal. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it was to them and their brain reacted in a way that is giving them symptoms. Like you don't get to say that it was, that they're overreacting or that that's not a big deal that's super invalidating and it doesn't help <laugh> at all.

Christy (36:05):

Right. There is no help that that happens when, when you're like, just calm down or you're, oh my gosh, you're being so dramatic. Like that is a, that's one that we, I I hear a lot and it's if, if someone is having PTSD symptoms, take them seriously and ask them, what do you need from me in this moment? Something like that because it, it doesn't, again, it doesn't look the same in everybody.

Lucas (36:31):

Right and on the flip side, there's also the myth that everybody who experiences a traumatic event develops PTSD and that just also isn't the case. We've had, I know personally, I've had many people come into my office who have experienced horrible things Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that I feel like would give anybody PTSD Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And they're fine. <laugh> relatively speaking about that. Right. Like, that's not bothering them. And so just if you have a loved one or you yourself experienced something that was con maybe considered traumatic by people, like, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to develop PTSD from that.

Christy (37:04):

Right. You get a lot of people who try to force themselves into feeling a certain way 'cause they think they should feel a certain way about a certain thing. And then when they don't, they're like, is there something wrong with me that I don't have PTSD? Like, should I be more traumatized by this incident? And it's like, you sh can we take the should out of feelings.

Lucas (37:24):

Stop shoulding on yourself. <Laugh>

Christy (37:26):

There we go again. Every time cracks me.

Lucas (37:29):

It's my favorite.

Christy (37:29):

I know. And it, it's, there's, there is no one way to feel. Lucas and I could go through the exact same traumatic experience and Lucas could develop PTSD and I could, I I could not.

Lucas (37:41):

Yep. The only different, like if it was a car crash, the only difference being that we were six inches apart. And it, there's a, there's a million factors and we talk about some of those things in our that episode. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But yeah. Everybody, everybody is different. Another big one is that people who have PTSD become violent, especially with flashback and.

Christy (38:00):

Not true. They can.

Lucas (38:01):

Right. And I think that that stigma comes from, there's a lot of media coverage and stuff in regards to like Vietnam war vets Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and other vets too. But how they can have a flashback and then all of a sudden they're becoming aggressive Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because they're having a flashback and that's just not, that's pretty extreme. Actually, most people aren't like that.

Christy (38:22):

I feel like the common one that I see a lot in movies are like the fan or like they see a fan going around and it reminds them of the ho of a helicopter that happened in war and then it just like takes them back to that place. And then

Lucas (38:33):

Unfortunate sun starts playing in the background.

Christy (38:35):

Yeah. Yeah. Every single time it's that song. That's the common one that I think of. And that can 100% happen and that is terrifying for people who experience that. And people who are around that. But it doesn't have to be that severe in order for you to have a flashback or a nightmare.

Lucas (38:51):

Yeah a flashback can simply be a flash of memories that comes into your head really, really fast. And then you're back in reality and now you're like having a panic attack. It doesn't have to be this like where you were fully dissociated and you're reliving the event. It can be. That's extreme. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So media, again, media only likes to cover the extreme things because that's what's exciting. But then it leads to this idea that that's what it all is and it just is not like that.

Christy (39:18):

Right I think that on the other side of things, I think there are people who experience something and they feel like they shouldn't have PTSD from it. Like it, it shouldn't have been that big of a deal. And it is, and it doesn't really matter if you think it's a big deal or not, or if anybody else thinks it's a big deal. If you are having PTSD symptoms, whatever it was that you experienced was severely distressing to you. Let's talk about it.

Lucas (39:40):

Absolutely.

Christy (39:42):

It is not a big deal.

Lucas (39:42):

Big thing that comes up with that is emotional abuse.

Christy (39:45):

Oh yeah.

Lucas (39:45):

Um because well, they didn't hit me.

Christy (39:48):

Right. Oh yeah.

Lucas (39:48):

You know, like, or like other people had like X, Y, and Z happen to them, so that shouldn't be this bad. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> don't, don't do that. Like if you're having symptoms that are associated with pt, it is bad. Whatever happened to you is bad.

Christy (40:02):

Yep, and scary.

Lucas (40:03):

Yeah. And you don't need to feel that way.

Christy (40:05):

Hey, there's a theme here. We love a good theme.

Lucas (40:10):

Absolutely. Autism is another one that's tons of stigma around that to the point where a lot of people avoid diagnosing it.

Christy (40:18):

They do.

Lucas (40:18):

Because of the stigma attached to it.

Christy (40:21):

Yeah. Um I think a big one for autism is that they'll never be able to function on their own. Yeah.

Lucas (40:28):

Yeah, you hear that a lot.

Christy (40:28):

And that is far from the truth, like far from the truth. There are people with autism that for sure are going to need services the rest of their lives. Again, mild, moderate, severe. Everything is on, it's called an autism spectrum disorder.

Lucas (40:40):

Right. It's like in the name. Even

Christy (40:42):

Yeah. For a reason. That that's, that's not it. If, if, if your child has it or you get as an adult get an autism diagnosis, it just, if, if anything maybe it would validate how you've been thinking and feeling and why you maybe haven't seen the world the same way as other people have.

Lucas (41:01):

Right. Yeah. Absolutely. 'cause your brain's just developed differently. Which goes into another myth that it is that you can develop autism or that it can be given to you.

Christy (41:10):

Oh, it's not contagious.

Lucas (41:11):

No, no. And just to be clear, vaccines do not cause autism.

Christy (41:15):

Correct. There's no scientific proof of that.

Lucas (41:17):

Nope. And another myth that I hear from parents is that well, like did I do something wrong? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to have this happen. No. Like they were just born that way. There's a major genetic component when it comes to autism, but that doesn't necessarily mean that somebody in your family has autism. Like there has to be a first person. At some point. Right? But there's, it's typically it's huge genetic component to that. There's not like an environmental thing that occurs that makes autism appear.

Christy (41:43):

It's just there.

Lucas (41:44):

It's just there. Now the spectrum part comes in because some people will be like, well, they seemed fine and now all of a sudden they're displaying all these symptoms, you can't develop it. So what happened? And a lot of times when the social stressors aren't bad enough, if you will, then it can kind of get masked. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you, it'll be missed for somebody maybe who has a less severe form of autism. And then once those social stressors come out, now all of a sudden they're displaying these things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so it can seem like it just comes outta nowhere when in reality it was there, it just was getting masked.

Christy (42:15):

Well, and I think sometimes too, as you develop socially, you know, like when you're in preschool, everybody's a little clueless. Like <laugh> toddlers. They are, they have a mind of their own. Whatever. But when you kind of, you can kind of see as they grow older that other kids are maybe maturing at a different rate than what your child is. And then that's kind of sometimes when it, when it's not that it comes out, then it's just that, that's when it becomes more noticeable that there might be something different about the way that your child sees the world than, than than their peers.

Lucas (42:48):

Right. I remember. 'cause I'm anxious guys, <laugh> when my, I have a, I have a 3-year-old who's almost four. And when one of the things that he's really into cars and trucks, I mean, classic boy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But he lines things up and that that is something to that a lot of times people with autism will do is that they'll start lining stuff up. And so I was like, does my kid have autism?

Christy (43:12):

Oh, geez, Louise.

Lucas (43:13):

Right. And that's but toddlers <laugh>. Right. Toddlers do that.

Christy (43:18):

Yeah. That's, that's a pretty normal thing for kids to do.

Lucas (43:21):

So what Christy was saying is that like, if it's happening when they're like older Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> when maybe everybody else is kind of developed out of that Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, then we might need to look at something there. Right. There might be some assessments that need to be done. So another thing that comes up too is that autism is this like new diagnosis. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. When in reality, like nerd out for just a second.

Christy (43:43):

Yay. I feel like I need to like a, a nerd jingle for when you do this.

Lucas (43:47):

Let's not do that.

Christy (43:48):

<Laugh>. Well that makes me wanna do it more.

Lucas (43:50):

Oh no. So the, the term or like the diagnosis name was coined in like 1943

Christy (43:57):

Around

Lucas (43:59):

Estimation. But we have accounts of symptoms of autism that we've been looking at since as early as like 1799. So like we've been aware that this is a thing for a very long time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. It's just we didn't have a name for it. Like many things in, in our world. And so a lot of people will say, well, autism has been skyrocketing since this time or whatever. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so something happened there. Well, it's 'cause we we got the name.

Christy (44:24):

Yeah. We figured out what it was.

Lucas (44:25):

Right. And so as we were understanding it, more people got diagnosed with it. It's not this brand new phenomena. It's been happening for centuries.

Christy (44:34):

Dare I say since we've lifted the stigma a little bit from autism. People are coming in and they're getting help for what they need because I mean, even in the 20 years I've done this, the stigma is still there, but it is definitely decreased. And so when you get more people coming to therapy being like, oh, hey, we can get help. We're gonna get more diagnoses.

Lucas (44:57):

Yes. That is how that works. Yeah.

Christy (44:58):

That's how statistics work, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. <Laugh>. Anyway.

Lucas (45:03):

Any who

Christy (45:04):

Any who did loops.

Lucas (45:06):

Going off of one of the things that you had said, Christy, that is on a spectrum. Right. And so one stigma that comes out is that everybody acts the same. So if you have autism, oh, that means this. When it, it doesn't. Autism is, when we say spectrum, like it is huge.

Christy (45:22):

Yep.

Lucas (45:22):

And we can go from non-verbal to all the way to, I don't even know, like just has some sensory.

Christy (45:30):

Some of the most su some of the, the most successful people in the world have, have autism's somewhere on the spectrum. And they, and they can't because Asperger's used to be in the DSM. And it's no longer in the DSM, but Asperger's is, was wild because you'd get these people who just were really, really good at a thing like ridiculous like numbers or sports teams or something like that. And they are still in the autism spectrum. And those people become highly successful people. Because they're really smart and they're really good at what they do.

Lucas (46:07):

Yeah, absolutely.

Christy (46:08):

I mean, there are doctors that are autistic.

Lucas (46:11):

We have a show about that.

Christy (46:12):

The Good Doctor. I love that show. <Laugh>.

Lucas (46:16):

They do, they actually do a pretty good job of

Christy (46:18):

Yeah. I would agree. And it's like he's, he's really, he's a really good doctor, but not great at relationships. You know, which you see often on the autism spectrum, where they're really good at what they do, but the social part of it is difficult.

Lucas (46:30):

Yeah. And I think that that's also a stigma though too, that like everybody with autism, like they're not going to be able to feel love or make connections or have friends or I've had one person say, well, so my son's never gonna get married.

Christy (46:44):

Oh dear.

Lucas (46:44):

Like, no, that's not what that means. Or like, they people with autism lack emotion. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or are cold. That's just not true.

Christy (46:52):

No. They have a lot of emotion actually. Some, some of them, some of them do. Some of them are blunted. Some of them don't have the emotional expression. But let me tell you, I have seen some emotional expression <laugh> from people with autism.

Lucas (47:06):

Yes. and I have seen a lot of a desire and a just a yearning to connect with people.

Christy (47:13):

Oh yeah. They, a lot of them, they really want, they want to have friends. They want to be in relationships. They are aware sometimes that they don't know how, or that, or that what they are doing is not working. So like, you get, we call them social scripts. Right. You, you teach people how to, how to interact and like how to have a reciprocal conversation. There's do, do you watch Love on the Spectrum? Of course you don't because you don't watch TV like that, but I do. But that's another, you know, show in the media where they've done a good job of showing a spectrum of people. But it's, they're, they're people. They're, those are people from all, all parts of the spectrum that are all trying to find a relationship because people crave connection. Human beings in general crave connection with other people.

Lucas (47:56):

Yeah. Absolutely. Lastly, autism cannot be cured. That is.

Christy (48:01):

That one stays.

Lucas (48:03):

Yep. So the myth would be autism can be cured. Just to be clear. Yeah. but yeah, it's a, it's your neurodevelopmental disorder, so you're born that way and it's, it's gonna stay there. But we can work on ways to manage it. And teaching social scripts and helping people with those sorts of things.

Christy (48:19):

I will just real quick, because I know he's looking at me like, Christy, this is really long, but I do want to show support for, for a lot of parents who are dealing with kids who have autism that are, it's really difficult. It's because I, because I think because autism happens on a spectrum, you can have some parents that, that have a higher functioning child with autism. And then you have the ones that are really aggressive and it, and they really do have a hard time. And I think that that can feel very alienating for parents who are raising kids who are on the severe end of the spectrum. And there is help for parents too. That are dealing with that sort of a thing. And I just want them to know that there is a huge community of people that do relate to what they're going through. And parents need therapy too.

Lucas (49:03):

Yeah. Yeah

Christy (49:04):

And so if that's, if that's a thing that you are experiencing with your child or whatever, it's like, we see you, we hear you. You also need help. Because that can be traumatizing sometimes. Um for parents.

Lucas (49:15):

Last one.

Christy (49:16):

Good.

Lucas (49:16):

ADHD.

Christy (49:17):

<Laugh>. Oh, Lucas.

Lucas (49:20):

So many myths about this one.

Christy (49:22):

There is so many myths about this one.

Lucas (49:23):

One of 'em a big one is that girls can't have it or that girls don't have it.

Christy (49:27):

Right. And they do.

Lucas (49:28):

They do. It's just more hidden.

Christy (49:29):

It is, it's more hidden because girls society tells us that we should act in a more proper way than boys. I mean, how many times do you hear people say, oh, it's just, he's they're just being little boys. They're just being little boys all the time. Little girls don't get to be just not, they're just being little girls. No. Drives me nuts.

Lucas (49:45):

There's a whole podcast right there. I'm sure, but <laugh>

Christy (49:48):

No, I'm fine.

Lucas (49:50):

Or ADHD will just go away or they just need to get over it. Or if they just tried harder. X, Y, Z.

Christy (49:57):

Yep. I think one of the biggest ones is that ADHD will, you could tell because they're bouncing all over the place. Like, they just are hyperactive all the time. There are two types of ADHD well, three combined, but there's attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder, hyperactive type. There is, what's the word?

Lucas (50:15):

Inattentive.

Christy (50:16):

Thank you. Wow. That was almost <laugh> that almost seemed planned. ADHD inattentive type. And then there's a combined type. But in the inattentive type is typically what you see in females and that's why it will go undiagnosed for a very long time. Because, 'cause they'll, they'll keep it together and they, they'll get their work done. They're not a behavior problem. And so nobody, it doesn't get flagged like it does with the, the hyperactive part of it. The inattentive part looks like daydreaming out the window or looking like you're paying attention, but like, you're really not paying attention. And you kind of come back in and you're like, oh my gosh, what was I doing reading a book and like getting halfway down the page and you're like, what did I just read?

Lucas (50:59):

Generous of you to give me halfway down the page?

Christy (51:01):

Well that is right.

Lucas (51:02):

Like halfway through a paragraph.

Christy (51:03):

Right. Or you're like, you're benching a Netflix series. Right. And you get, you're, you watch 10 minutes, you're like, I don't know what happened in the last five minutes. You have to go back and rewind if you are doing any of these things. If you're turning down the radio when the traffic gets bad, <laugh>, like these are, these are all things that, maybe procrastination is a huge one that people don't look at is like a, a red flag, but procrastination, forgetting things. And the thing with the, the inattentive type is like, you procrastinate to the very last minute, but you'll get it done and you'll get it done well. And so that's why it goes unnoticed. 'cause You'll turn it in and it'll be beautiful. 'cause

Lucas (51:37):

There's no problems.

Christy (51:38):

Because there's no problems. And you'll probably hyper focus to get it finished.

Lucas (51:41):

Right. A lot of times people with ADHD are seen as lazy 'cause they Mm-Hmm. Maybe get things half done or they forget or they avoid things that they feel like are gonna take a long time even though they're not going to.

Christy (51:51):

Or it takes them a long time to get things done. What, what could take me 20 minutes to get done? Could take my friend Lucas here, two hours unmedicated to get done.

Lucas (52:02):

It's bad guys. <Laugh>. It's so bad.

Christy (52:06):

It is. Yep. Yep. Every time we have a presentation next week and I will make sure that I text him in the morning, take your meds.

Lucas (52:14):

Yeah. <Laugh>.

Christy (52:15):

It's good for all of us, but there, I mean there are just so many missed around ADHD and I think it will go undiagnosed even with really good parents through high school because they might find a way to manage it when things aren't super stressful. Or like if they're, if they're very smart, you can go through school and you can never have those, the, the ADHD stuff come out, but then they go to college and there's more stress put on them and all of a sudden it's like, why can't I focus? Because you're putting more stress on your brain than it's, than it knows how to deal with, you know? Yeah.

Lucas (52:46):

So a lot of times too. Last one. Parents will think that, well I had, I was just like this and I figured it out. We don't have to do life on hard mode. And so just because you maybe air quotes figured it out. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, whatever that means. <Affirmative> doesn't mean that we have to make everybody do that. So and also your kids may not be the same as you. Maybe it's worse for them. So let's maybe help 'em out.

Christy (53:13):

And who knows what the parents' lives would've looked like if they would've gotten help for it.

Lucas (53:16):

Right

Christy (53:17):

In the beginning.

Lucas (53:17):

If I had been on medications earlier in my life, how much?

Christy (53:19):

Think of where you could be.

Lucas (53:20):

Oh my goodness.

Christy (53:21):

Well thank God you didn't. 'cause You need to be here. <Laugh>,

Lucas (53:25):

And I'm so glad I am.

Christy (53:27):

Here at Dakota Family Services.

Lucas (53:28):

We always want to encourage you to ask the question, is it just me? You're likely not alone. And there is always a way to help. If anything we have talked about today resonates with you, please reach out.

Christy (53:36):

Do you have a topic you'd like us to talk about? Message us. We'd love to hear from you. You can either drop us a dm, a Facebook message. Our email is, isitjustme@dakotaranch.org.

Lucas (53:46):

And don't forget to share us with your friends and family.

Announcer (53:48):

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Is It Just Me? To learn more or make an appointment for psychiatric or mental health services at Dakota Family Services, go to dakotafamilyservices.org or call 1 800 2 0 1 64 95.

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