About the Hosts

Christy Wilkie provides therapy for children and adolescents, ages 5-25, who have complex behavioral health issues. She combines her extensive clinical expertise with a belief in kids, and has a unique ability to find and develop their strengths. She works hard to be an ideal therapist for her clients, doing what is best to fit their needs.

Lucas Mitzel provides therapy for children, adolescents, and adults, ages 5 - 30. He believes building relationships with clients is the most important piece of successful therapy. He loves what he does because it allows him to walk next to people he would never have met had he chosen a different profession, as they work to make amazing life changes. He has the honor of meeting people at their worst, all while watching them grow into the people they’ve always wanted to be.

Transcript
Coping with the Back-to-School Blues

Featuring Christy Wilkie, LCSW, and Lucas Mitzel, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Announcer (00:00):

This episode of Is It Just Me, is brought to you by Dakota Family Services, your trusted partner in mental and behavioral health. Whether you need in-person or virtual care, the team of professionals at Dakota Family Services is dedicated to supporting children, adolescents, and adults in their journey to better mental health.

Christy (00:21):

Disrupting life patterns and life routines that aren't serving you.

Lucas (00:26):

It's how we feel that keeps us going.

Christy (00:29):

You can be a masterpiece and a work of art all at the same time.

Lucas (00:40):

Hey everyone, I'm Lucas.

Christy (00:42):

And I'm Christy.

Lucas (00:43):

And you're listening to the Is It Just Me podcast where

Christy (00:45):

We aim to provide education, decreased the stigma, and expel some myth around mental health.

Lucas (00:49):

Christy, is it just me or did the summer just go way too fast?

Christy (00:52):

It is not just you. It went way too fast.

Lucas (00:55):

I hate this <laugh>.

Christy (00:56):

Why are we here? <laugh>? Why are we here at the end of the summer already?

Lucas (01:00):

Oh my God.

Christy (01:01):

How did this happen?

Lucas (01:02):

I don't, well, just one day goes after the other and then eventually we're here

Christy (01:05):

As timed does. <Laugh>. Wow. The insightful comments today, <laugh>.

Lucas (01:11):

And we're, this is gonna be a good one. This is gonna be a good one.

Christy (01:13):

We are on fire already.

Lucas (01:15):

Do you find that this is like one of the more stressful times of year though for everyone?

Christy (01:21):

Yes. And I remember when I was growing up, my mom, when the 4th of July would come, 'cause I was a lake kid and we just loved it. We you spent all summer looking for the 4th of July and she'd always be like, well, summer's half done. I was like, oh no. But it's kinda like she's not wrong. I know. You know? So it's like we're on the other half of the 4th of July and it's like, ugh, this just went way too quickly.

Lucas (01:43):

Way, way too fast.

Christy (01:44):

But it's, and I think it's the, the first part of the summer is people enjoying the summer and being like, oh my gosh, we're outta school. And the second part is kinda like, oh, school's coming, big changes happening in the fall. Yeah. And it's like people are at the point right now that they're starting to get a little bit more anxious.

Lucas (02:00):

Yeah. I'd say, at least for me, and I think everybody else would agree with this, that the two busiest times of year for us is the end of school and the beginning of school

Christy (02:10):

For sure.

Lucas (02:10):

And there's a million reasons for that. But obviously the biggest reason is all of the giant transitions that people are doing.

Christy (02:17):

Right. It's not just going to school. Right. It's going to school, it's going off to college. It's huge. Life transitions for parents, for kids that are going to be adults. I mean every, like, I think sometimes we forget, like when you're little to go to the next grade is like a big deal.

Lucas (02:35):

Yeah.

Christy (02:36):

It's huge.

Lucas (02:36):

It is huge. And not, we can't forget to mention just like simply we are transitioning then into a different season as well. And there's a lot of anxiety that can come with come with that. Like we've talked about seasonal affective disorder before. And how, I have a lot of clients who give very stressed anticipating what's gonna happen this year. And how we're gonna get through it. Right. So there's a lot of stress going on right now.

Christy (03:00):

Everywhere you can feel it, it's palpable.

Lucas (03:03):

So I mean we could, there's a lot of topics that we just said that we're gonna try and cover, but why, let's start, maybe we'll go from youngest to oldest.

Christy (03:12):

Look at us

Lucas (03:13):

Try to be organized. Yeah.

Christy (03:15):

At least one of us does. <laugh>. That is the truth.

Lucas (03:18):

So why do you think going back to school for like K through 12? Yeah. Why, why is that stressful?

Christy (03:23):

I'm gonna say for, well actually this is probably true for K through 12. It's the unknown. I mean, that's anxiety in general. Right. But you get people who are anxious. The thing is they don't know what they're getting into. And so it's kind like the anticipation of going into a classroom that you don't know with kids that you don't know, with a teacher that you don't know. It's like you don't know the expectations of your teachers. Your professors. If you're going to college and if you're a parent, you don't know how your kids are gonna respond to those new environments too. That's, it's huge. And it's a change in routine.

Lucas (03:53):

Huge change in routine.

Christy (03:54):

And we kind of go with the summer, people would get a little willy-nilly <laugh>,

Lucas (03:58):

You got there, good job.

Christy (04:00):

I took a minute. <laugh> with the bedtimes and wake up times whatever. And then you go to school and if you don't practice those routines. Yeah. That is a, that is a rough transition into the school year.

Lucas (04:11):

Yeah. I've got a few kiddos that they really struggle at the end of the year because they go from tons of routine to no routine. And then they go from no routine to tons of routine. And so those are two, I mean that's, those are big deals. And like you said, there's a lot of new things happening. And depending on what part of your like academic career that you're in right now, like it could be you're changing schools. altogether. Maybe you moved. And now beginning of school year is even more stressful. The transitions from elementary to middle and then middle to high school are always really big. And then like every year in high school that they get closer to being a senior gets a little bit more stressful.

Christy (04:51):

Or excited. I mean even, but even with the ex, like some people, some people get really excited about some of those things. Not everybody is like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. Like, some kids really love being in school because they do thrive on the routine and they do really need to know what happens next and have expectations set for them. And that's great. Some kids do not. And so I think it goes down to really getting to know your own child and what they need. Because kids are just not the same.

Lucas (05:17):

Are there, do you feel like there are certain mental health diagnoses that maybe, for lack of a better phrase, like kind of flare up during this time? Or we just need to maybe have a little bit more care with

Christy (05:28):

Yeah. Most mood disorders. I mean, anxiety is the biggest one. I think that just kinda goes depression also, just depending on, you just don't know. Like you don't know what's gonna trigger it. And it's if, if you go, like you go into a new classroom and it's all of a sudden you're with all these kids that you're perceiving don't wanna hang out with you or you don't fit in. Or some grades are really tough. Middle school is tough.

Lucas (05:52):

Middle school sucks.

Christy (05:53):

It's just Wow.

Lucas (05:55):

Yeah. It's, that's a lot.

Christy (05:56):

It is. There's just a lot going on in middle school. <laugh>, it just is. I think that there's just a lot of friend stuff and social stuff that happens that causes a lot of distress.

Lucas (06:07):

Yes. Yeah. I think that there's so like obviously general anxiety, generalized anxiety can flare up quite a bit. But separation anxiety is a big one that we see, especially with elementary school age kiddos. And just that if you have for teachers who are home all, all summer long and then they go back to school and now their kids are separating, like there can be a little bit of a, for lack of a better phrase, like regression in, in that ability to separate, which can be a challenge for a lot of families can cause a lot of distress. The best thing you can do, and I think we've talked about this in our anxiety episode, but the best thing you can do is just drop 'em off. They're safe and then you leave. Just let them because they're gonna stop like really soon after you leave.

Christy (06:53):

There are, I mean, and there are things that you can do leading up to that too. Like we always, depending on the kid, like go practice. Go practice dropping. Practice a drop off, walk 'em into the school, let them walk into the school before anybody is there before all of the overwhelm and anxiety is there. So they know that routine of going to school, dropping off, walking in, like they can do it. Build up some mastery before they have to do it with an audience.

Lucas (07:20):

Yeah.

Christy (07:21):

I think anything, any the, the pre-teaching is invaluable.

Lucas (07:28):

Well 'cause anxiety is all about being, uh, worried about the unknown. So if we can remove the unknowns, then you're gonna feel better going into it. Right. So like with, uh, high schoolers walk your classes. A lot of the, one of the biggest worries that I get or most common ones is what if I get lost? Or what if I don't make it in like the three to four minutes that I have in the hallway. To a kid that seems like zero time and they don't realize how long an actual minute is.

Christy (07:56):

They can't even check their text messages in that time.

Lucas (07:57):

So walking, like timing that, walking from class to class to see what do you actually have time for that. And really what it probably comes down to is you just don't get to stand in the hallway talking to your friends. Um, which is kind of the point of the three minutes. <laugh>.

Christy (08:12):

Most kids that go to high school end up graduating and most kids aren't tardy. So there's something about that schedule that works. It's weird. If most kids can make it on time, then you can too.

Lucas (08:27):

Right. Go through worst case scenarios. So try and figure out what the worries are and then, okay, so what if that happens, what would you do? And a lot of times it's funny to me, just because I've been doing it for a while, but they always have the answer <laugh>. And, uh, they just didn't think about it fully. They stopped at the worry and didn't move forward. They didn't finish the movie as an analogy that I like to use.

Christy (08:50):

Close that loop.

Lucas (08:50):

Anxiety being the, uh, the trailer to the movie. And it, it doesn't tell you the ending. So finish the movie and then, uh, you'll feel better. If you can handle worst case scenario, everything else is gonna be pretty easy.

Christy (09:01):

Right. It's amazing. Even when they, when they try to think of worst case scenario. I mean, there are some, there are some people that they, they really can come up with a pretty significant worst case scenario. But even most of the time, the worst case scenario ends up being relatively manageable in some way.

Lucas (09:16):

Yea. Absolutely. And the ones that just 'cause you brought it up, the ones that are like severe worst case scenarios, is that even reality, right? Like would that happen? Chances are if it's that bad, like where if I go to school I might fall down the stairs and die or something like that. That's not totally as a real situation that Yes, I talk to somebody about have you ever fallen downstairs before? Does that happen to you regularly? Like, are we really worried about that? Well, no. Okay. Well so it's probably not gonna happen.

Christy (09:43):

Right? Yeah.

Lucas (09:43):

So it's finding out what those worries are and then helping them face it.

Christy (09:47):

Just because now we're here, I'm sorry we're in a rabbit hole at the beginning of the school year and throughout the school year, but there's a lot of drills. Oh, okay. Fire drills. I don't know what they're call, I don't know what they call, they call 'em code something now. I don't even know what they call them, but like, they have to practice going under their desk or locking the door. You know, those kinds of things. And it's, I mean, that causes significant distress in kids. And I think, I think most schools have gotten better about not just not doing them unexpectedly. Yeah. Like they put 'em on a schedule and they kind of give kids a heads up, especially if they have a heads up that a kid is maybe a little bit more anxious. But I tell you, those drills cause significant distress for young anxious kids. Well, maybe even older anxious kids. I don't know.

Lucas (10:31):

They don't call 'em lockdown drills anymore?

Christy (10:34):

Maybe they do. I don't know what they call them.

Lucas (10:35):

I don't know. They're changing stuff all the time. They change how they do basic math now. I don't even know how to do it. Oh my gosh. I didn't know how to do it back then. I definitely don't how to do now.

Christy (10:43):

I didn't know how to do it the way that they're teaching me. I sure don't know how to do it the way that they're teaching them.

Lucas (10:48):

Oh my goodness. A lot of the, uh, worries that I get with kids is also related to social anxiety. So like, especially with elementary school kids or middle school kiddos, they don't have vehicles. They don't get to see their friends maybe as often. And so they've gone three months without their friends. And so it's like, well what if my friends don't like me anymore? What if I don't have any friends anymore? And it's, I've never seen that actually happen. Um, but it is a very common worry that I hear and it's just important that you talk through those things like we're saying. But it's also really important that even if it's seems like that's ridiculous to us, it's not to them. So make sure that you validate, you validate, validate, validate.

Christy (11:31):

I think the other thing too is if, if you've gone the summer, and I mean a lot of kids have phones now, but if they've gone the summer without seeing their friends or whatever in those, in those few weeks before school, get them back in touch with people. Get them back in touch with, with the friends that, that you know that they're gonna be around. Or if, you know, when you start to know who's in their classrooms, get 'em connected with some of those kids so that there's a familiar face when they, when they go back there. Because this is another I just saw, I just saw a kid today that I hadn't seen since school and I think he grew a foot. I mean, kids change, they change the way that they look. They just change so much so fast. That it's like over the course of a summer, like someone can become almost unrecognizable. Let's make sure that we know what these people are looking like. I was like, geez, you wearing stilts today, kid <laugh>.

Lucas (12:17):

Some of the other worries that I hear would, oh, what if my teachers not nice? What do my teachers mean to me? Or what if I can't remember my locker combination is another really popular one.

Christy (12:28):

I going back to the, this my kid I was talking to today. He's talking about being worried that he had a strict teacher and he's an anxious kid, so he follows the rules <laugh> because that's how it manifests. And I was like, the worst thing that could happen if you have a strict teacher is that everybody follows the rules. And it decreases the chaos that happens in your life, which is actually really good for you. <laugh>. And he was just like, oh yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. It's like, yeah. Strict teachers. There's not, when you got a teacher that like will stick to a routine and make sure that things get taken care of, that can ease a lot of anxiety rather than actually, because they're, if you're worried that your teacher's strict, you're probably not the target market for who she's gonna be strict with.

Lucas (13:12):

And a lot of times kids will use strict and mean, uh, synonymously. But another way I'll help kids think about it is, well, why, why do you think teachers get mean? And it's always because somebody's breaking the rules. Um, do you break the rules? And typically, like Christy just said, kids who are worried about this are the rule followers. And they're like, well, no. Okay, so then they're not gonna be mean to you. Right. Or how many teachers have you had? And this works, obviously, the better the older the kid is, the better this works. And how many mean teachers have you actually had? So what are the chances of that actually occurring? Or how many times has a teacher actually been mean to you?

Christy (13:46):

Right. I blame movies.

Lucas (13:48):

Yes. Movies are a big part of this.

Christy (13:50):

The portrayal. Just like these mean terrible ogre like teachers, especially elementary school teachers are like the bomb, like the most friendly. Energetic, wonderful people. It's, you're not, there's just not many mean teachers in the elementary education era.

Lucas (14:09):

With like locker combinations. So we're getting into like middle school to high school level now. Like practice that with them. Even just, I have drawn a little dial on my whiteboard and I just taught them how to do like three turns to the right, two turns to the left and go straight to the number. And even just talking about that alleviated a ton of anxiety 'cause they're like, oh, I can do that. That's easy. Yeah. Or what happens if I actually do forget it? Well, you just go to the office and they just help you out with it. Like it happens all the time.

Christy (14:37):

And they'll give you a pass. Like, you're not gonna get kicked out of school if you can't get into your locker. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like they think that, they think that, I mean that's a, or or it's an embarrassment thing where it's like, well, everybody else is gonna get their stuff together and I can't and then I'm gonna be late into my classroom and everybody's gonna be looking at me. And I was like, dude, I promise you teenagers are so egocentric, they are so worried about themselves that they do not care. They just, they're probably just glad that it's not them that's going in late. <Laugh>.

Lucas (15:05):

They're just trying to survive too. Yeah,

Christy (15:06):

Exactly. Everybody's just out there fighting their own battles.

Lucas (15:09):

So funny. Everybody who's anxious is always worried that everybody's looking at them while everybody else is worried that everybody else is looking at them.

Christy (15:14):

Exactly.

Lucas (15:15):

So they're all just focused on themselves <laugh>.

Christy (15:16):

Right. And it, it's just, they don't think about it like that. Right. But when you kind of can point out the cognitive distortions, like, because they, they're like, nobody likes me. Nobody cares about me. It's like, if nobody likes you and nobody cares about you, why is everybody going to be watching you walk into a classroom and being like, oh, look at them. It's like, no, you can't. Both things are not true in this case.

Lucas (15:39):

Yeah. Like, I mean this in the best, most loving way possible. You're not that big of a deal.

Christy (15:43):

You're right. <laugh>

Lucas (15:46):

Other than high school, the most, probably the biggest worry that I get from high schoolers. So if parents, if you don't know this, they are worried about this, where am I gonna sit or who am I gonna sit with at lunch? It is the most stressful part of like the first week of school.

Christy (16:00):

Do you know how much time in general throughout the year I talk about lunch.

Lucas (16:05):

It's so much

Christy (16:06):

The social dynamics at lunch are just wild. So much so that a lot of kids will skip lunch and not eat because it causes them so much distress. So if that's the case snacks, pack snacks for for kids because you can't go throughout the whole day not eating. That's not good for your brain. It's not good for, it's not good for anything. It's not good for your mood. Hangry is a thing.

Lucas (16:27):

Absolutely it is.

Christy (16:28):

So if you have a kid that's skipping lunch, always make sure that there's some snacks. But that's like my first question is who eating lunch with?

Lucas (16:34):

Yeah. 'cause it's a big deal.

Christy (16:36):

Or even getting lunch, like the act of getting lunch and this is K through 12. Yeah. Like going through the hot lunch line, huh? That is stressful for a lot of people. Like, what if I drop my tray? What if my food gets all over? What if this what I mean, they're lunch man. It is. It's rough out there.

Lucas (16:52):

Yeah. If you have any kids that are struggle with any sensory issues it can be a really good idea to ask the school for any alternative areas that they could go eat. The lunchroom is incredibly overstimulating. People are yelling. There's just tons of people in there and anything can happen at any time. It feels like you're in a jungle. It can feel very chaotic. Especially to somebody who maybe has some overstimulation.

Christy (17:17):

Well, and and even anxiety. I mean, anxiety is also about control and, and it's wanting to have it <laugh>. And when you go into a situation like that and there's hundreds of kids all in the same place and you have no control over what any of them are going to do. Say throw, like that is, you are just kind of putting yourself out there. Yeah.

Lucas (17:36):

So then moving a little bit older now, so going into college

Christy (17:40):

Oh yeah.

Lucas (17:41):

So for our seniors who graduated last year. And then moving into, uh, going into college, moving out of the house potentially. Um, not everybody does that, but a lot of people do Moving potentially states away. Yeah. This is a major transition. You're starting to adult for the first time.

Christy (17:59):

Yeah. Do you remember when you had to adult for the first time?

Lucas (18:02):

It was terrifying. <laugh>. Yes, I do. And I hated it.

Christy (18:07):

Yeah. It was, that's it's rough. And I think sometimes we forget that. Like you, you just get so far removed from it that you forget what it's like to be 18 years old and have to pay a bill or have to figure out your classes on a college campus by yourself. Like we're taking these kids that are worried about getting lost in a building in high school, going from class to class. And now we're putting them on giant college campuses being like, Hey, good luck out there.

Lucas (18:31):

Like, it's not like a ton of development happened between like whatever May 25th that they graduated and then now September 1st or August. Whatever. There's still just kids..

Christy (18:44):

But the expectations of those kids have now gone through the roof.

Lucas (18:47):

Through he roof. Yes. And their entire time they've, this happens too. We've, I forgot about this. Every time somebody is transitioning from elementary to middle, from middle to high school, from high school to college, the teachers are always telling the kids that the next level up, those teachers are gonna be stricter. They're gonna be meaner. They're not gonna care.

Christy (19:10):

You can't get away with this in high school.

Lucas (19:12):

Right. You can . I really wish that, um, teachers would stop saying that because it does does really scare kids. And it makes them really worried about the next year. And it's just not true. You're going even in college, like I, I feel like I got my hand held more in college actually from my professors than I did in high school.

Christy (19:33):

Probably. Yeah. So <laugh> because they want you to succeed. I mean that's the thing. That's the thing about teachers in they want you to succeed. That's like literally their job.

Lucas (19:42):

I thought they were there for the money.

Christy (19:44):

<laugh> <laugh>. You are lucky that there's not a teacher here right now.

Lucas (19:47):

I know. That was a joke. <laugh>. That was a joke.

Christy (19:50):

I mean, I think people for like, they go into teaching because they want you to succeed. That's like the whole point.

Lucas (19:58):

Whole point. Yep.

Christy (20:00):

I think it's, and it again, in college, this doesn't go away. The biggest thing that I get from kids that are going into college is like, I'm not gonna make any friends. I'm not gonna know anybody. Yeah. You and everybody else in those dorms are, you're not gonna know anybody. So you're all in the same, you're all in this together and everybody's looking to make friends and meet new people. And it is overwhelming to go from a school where you know, most of the people, you know what to expect, you know what the cliques are, you know where you fit in kind of that sort of thing. To just get like thrown into something where there isn't an established, like, not a hierarchy, but like there's not established groups that are there. It's like you're just like, you're all just out there trying to find your way.

Lucas (20:40):

Yeah. You are all in a brand new school. The social structure is completely different. And it is, it can be terrifying. But the way that you work through that is the exact same you thing that you would do for elementary, middle, and, and high school. You eliminate the uncertainties. So go walk your classes. If you're getting a new roommate, try to reach out prior to that and meet them and like alleviate that anxiety for yourself. Just trying to eliminate as many of the uncertainties as you can is gonna really help make you feel better.

Christy (21:14):

We talk, we talk a lot about like the school part of it, but like, honestly being on your own is huge. I'm talking like, how do you make an appointment? How do you go to the doctor by yourself? How do you do? Did I tell you that my first phone bill, that my first bill that I ever had to pay when I was in college? I can't believe that I'm gonna say this out loud

Lucas (21:34):

And it's gonna be recorded forever if that makes you feel better.

Christy (21:36):

It it does. But <laugh> it doesn't actually, but my first phone bill and back then I am a dinosaur. Right. We didn't have cell phones. Like if I would, if I were to call home, it was a long distance phone call that I was charged for. Like that was a thing. Okay. So it was all and the and the bill came to me, not to my mom and dad, which is like lame. But okay. And it was, it was like $61 and 73 cents or something. And I didn't know how to pay it. Yeah. So I just put $63 and then the change in an envelope and sent it off to Hawaii.

Lucas (22:14):

Of course. Because why wouldn't you?

Christy (22:16):

That just made sense to me.

Lucas (22:18):

Wait, why Hawaii?

Christy (22:20):

I don't know. That was where Concordia had their long distance something from, but that's where it went.

Lucas (22:26):

That is weird.

Christy (22:26):

I, you're telling me

Lucas (22:27):

There's a lot of weird things in that story.

Christy (22:29):

Nothing as weird as the person that opened up my $61 and 38 cents.

Lucas (22:34):

Did they just send it back to you?

Christy (22:36):

They called me. Yeah. And they were like, ma'am, you can't, you can't do that. And I was like, okay. Gotcha. Next time like <laugh>. So then I was like, ah, a check. I have to write a check. 'cause we couldn't pay anything online back then.

Lucas (22:50):

That's awesome. I love that story.

Christy (22:52):

Right. But I mean, and I have, I have several of those, honestly, because I came from, my parents were very much, took care of me. They just did my, that my mom did everything for me <laugh> for, for a very long time. So like doing the laundry, making an appointment, paying a bill, like just stupid stuff like that that I think most kids now probably know how to do. But I certainly did not. Cook a meal. I still haven't figured that out.

Lucas (23:19):

You still dunno how to do that.

Christy (23:20):

Still haven't figured that out <laugh>. Um, but I, I think I had, I maybe single-handedly kept easy Mac in business.

Lucas (23:30):

Adulting is terrifying when you've never done it before. It is, it's still a little terrifying after doing it. But <laugh> <laugh>. But a lot of it is very, uh, manageable when you just 'cause kids, A lot of kids don't wanna sound dumb or don't wanna feel dumb, and they feel like everybody except them knows how to do these things. And it's just not true. So asking the questions as a parent or as an adult in the person's life, are you having any worries about this? Opens up that conversation. And then they can share that with you and then you can be like, oh yeah, no, that's actually really easy. So let me show you how to do it. And then it alleviates all of that pressure for them. Yeah. And then opens the door for any other worries that might come up later. Or maybe you'll just open the flood gates and they'll just share all of their worries with you right there.

Christy (24:14):

Which is great.

Lucas (24:14):

Which is great because then we can just work on it. But a lot of it, the vast majority of the time is like really easy stuff That they just need to be taught how.

Christy (24:21):

Right. That also brings me to this point, which is true for all of the, all of the ages all of the time. But I think we always focus on what's gonna go wrong. Right. It's like, okay, what are you worried about? What are the things that that are, that could possibly go wrong 'cause we wanna fix it. Humans by nature are kind of fixers. We just wanna fix it. But when you, if you can shift the conversation to be like, what are you really excited about? Like what are the fun things that, that are gonna happen? Ooh, I can't, or how excited are you to do this? Like that kind of thing. It's like, that's what you're gonna focus on rather than all the stuff that's gonna go wrong or all the stuff that you're gonna worry about. It's like shift the conversation and make it, make it a more positive experience to be like, dude, you're, you're gonna be able to go out and have pizza at three o'clock in the morning if you want to because you can. 'Cause you're an adult and that sounds great. Absolutely. Not three o'clock in the morning to me anymore because I'm in bed by nine. <Laugh>. But when I was in college, that sounded relatively appealing. It was like, oh, I can go to Perkins and have a bread bowl at 12:30 AM without asking my mom. Okay.

Lucas (25:22):

Are the classes harder? Absolutely. But do you only have to go to class a few times a day? Yes. And it's great. Yep. Absolutely. Are your classes maybe like an hour and a half long? Yeah. But you only have it twice a week. Right. That sounds wonderful. Some classes you don't even have assignments. It's just tests. Which is both terrifying for some kids, <laugh> and other kids, it's like, heck yeah. This is great. So there are some really awesome things about every single transition that somebody's gonna go through. But it's really easy, like Christy said, to focus on those negatives and just worry about those things. So yeah. It is really important to talk about the exciting things as well.

Christy (25:56):

Kids, young adults in general will take on the emotions of the people around them. So if, if you are giving off this worried, oh my gosh, can you do it vibe <laugh> to people that they will absorb that. Be like, oh my gosh, can I do it? I don't know. But if you're like, no, you can do it if you, if you can, like, even if inside you're like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do it. <laugh>, if outside you are like, no, I have faith in you. I'm, I'm confident that we have raised you right and that you are gonna do great. Like, let's go that way rather than like, yeah. I don't know if they're gonna be able to do this <laugh>. Because I think there are probably, I would say most parents have a lot of those doubts in there, not doubts, but like worries. They worry of course about their children. Yes. Out there in the world.

Lucas (26:40):

Absolutely. Yes. We do. <laugh>. <laugh>. Another thing that I've noticed with especially, uh, freshmen is in that worry.

Christy (26:49):

High school freshmen or college freshmen?

Lucas (26:50):

College freshmen. Okay. Yes. Sorry. Thank you.

Christy (26:54):

Be specific.

Lucas (26:54):

So with college freshmen, they're so worried that they're not gonna meet people or not going to have friends, or they're worried. A lot of them are worried that like, they're not going to do well enough to get whatever career they're asking for. When in reality, I've never talked to anybody who has a job that their job has ever asked for their transcripts. Um, <laugh> So fun facts. True. But they will overdo it that first year join every single club, like say yes to literally everything. And then they overcommit themselves.

Christy (27:25):

And take 42 credits.

Lucas (27:26):

Right? Yeah. Trying to look as good as possible. And then they just burn out. And their anxiety's through the roof. Maybe they're depressed and they're not able to, you're not, you're just not able to do it. And so then you're really hard on yourself and then you're feeling really sad. And that's, it's really hard. And it's really important that we make sure that we're taking care of ourselves and build those boundaries up. You can always add something more. It's a lot harder to say, I can't do this anymore.

Christy (27:49):

Right. 100%. I think that is a lot of kids will go into college and be like, I'm gonna do this in three years. I'm gonna get out, I'm gonna get moving and get into my career. And it's like, let's start smaller and build bigger. It's way better to do it that way. Right. Because, and especially if you are a person who is prone to mental health issues, for sure take that into consideration. I mean, in general. That's great. We should also do that. But like, if you're a person who has any sort of underlying mental health issue, why set yourself up for failure?

Lucas (28:23):

Absolutely.

Christy (28:23):

Let's do everything we can to set you up for success.

Lucas (28:27):

And then also be aware that you don't have to know what you're gonna do with your life day one of college. No. That's the point of college is to figure out what's gonna, what you want to do. And so if you go into college as undecided or you're maybe thinking you might switch it eventually, that is okay. Let that happen.

Christy (28:47):

I think that my dorm, my freshman year, everybody I asked that first week of orientation was like, pre-med. I'm pre-med. I'm pre-Med <laugh>. Guess how many of them were no longer pre-med by semester two? Most of them. Because chemistry is hard. <laugh> <laugh>. So, and they found other areas that were actually really interesting to them. It's like, oh, I can go, I can go into psychology. That's interesting. I can go into, I'm really good at business that, that's really interesting. I wanna do communication or journalism 'cause that I'm, turns out I'm really good at it. And I think that that is the really cool part about college is that you really get to figure out where your strengths are that you didn't really get to. You don't really get to do that in high school. Ri It's like everybody's just, you just gotta meet the, meet the standard, meet the criteria. Right. And you maybe kind of have an idea of what you're better at than not. But you go to college and you really, you really get to dig into where your strengths are and what you wanna do with your life so you're not miserable.

Lucas (29:46):

Right. It's great. I loved college.

Christy (29:49):

I also loved college.

Lucas (29:50):

I switched my major three times and transferred schools once.

Christy (29:54):

What did you start as?

Lucas (29:55):

I started as a criminal justice major. Oh sure. Um, and I was, my plan was from the time I was like in high school to become a US marshal And to like be on the tactical operations team and like bust down doors.

Christy (30:11):

That is extraordinarily specific.

Lucas (30:13):

Yeah. I had this whole plan in my head. And for anybody who knows me when I tell that story, they're like, that's not you at all. And so I was taking some criminal justice classes and I think I took two semesters worth. And I was like, this is not, this is not who I am. Yeah. And then I moved into, I found out that I really liked sociology. Yeah. So I moved into sociology and it took a couple of semesters in that and really, really liked it, but it just wasn't, it wasn't right. I was doing a lot of research 'cause I wanted to help people in the, like a therapeutic, uh, style. And eventually I found my way into social work, which wasn't available at the college that I was in or wasn't as good of a program as the one I wanted to go to. And so then I transferred schools, fell in love with the subject, and here we are. I started, I was in high school and I said, I will never ever work with kids. I promised myself that. I was like, this. Now I love it. Yeah. I would never do anything else.

Christy (31:10):

That is wild.

Lucas (31:12):

So let yourself explore. Let yourself change figure out who you are. It's so awesome.

Christy (31:19):

There's so much self discovery that happens in college. And I get really excited for kids to figure out who they are when they're on their own.

Lucas (31:28):

Absolutely. Which, so when they're on their own, they're, we've talked about the parents a little bit, but especially for parents who maybe it's your last kiddo To go into college. That's hard. And there's actually a term for that. It's called empty nesting.

Christy (31:42):

And I think the biggest thing with this transition for parents is to not judge how they're feeling about it. Because there are, there are parents that are like, yes, empty nest. Woo!

Lucas (31:54):

Get out <laugh>! Let's go

Christy (31:56):

I taught you to fly. Go. And they're, they're totally stoked about it, which is awesome. Love that. And then there are other parents that, that this is a really, really difficult time. And the thing about parents of seniors is that you're together a lot. Right? Like that those parent groups are together. And when you see somebody that's like really excited and you're like, why am I not excited? Or somebody sees somebody that's sad, they're like, why am I not more sad about this? Right. And it's like, you don't have to feel any sort of, however you feel is how you feel.

Lucas (32:23):

Exactly.

Christy (32:24):

And it's valid.

Lucas (32:25):

All feelings are valid and

Christy (32:26):

It matters.

Lucas (32:29):

<laugh>. And so, 'cause there's a lot of things that, uh, that are changing when you're empty nesting, like for a lot of parents. And speaking for myself too, like my, a lot, lot of my identity is wrapped up in being a dad. and who I am as a person, what I do all day, how I plan my days. It is all around my kid. And, um, there's not a single thing that I think of that I don't consider him in those plans or what I would like to do. So when that is gone for people that can be really hard because now it's like a piece of you is no longer there. RiAnd you can have a bit of like an existential crisis or an identity crisis when that occurs.

Christy (33:07):

For sure. And I think that happens in relationships too, in marriages. 'cause for so long as a, as a couple, everything is about, everything is about your kids. And it's like all of a sudden they're not there. So it's like, how do you reconnect and how do you figure out what that, what your marriage looks like now that there are not children that you have to take care of all of the time.

Lucas (33:27):

Cause now you're just, it's just you two again. Like it used to be

Christy (33:31):

Back to basics, man. Yeah.

Lucas (33:33):

Which, like we were talking about earlier can be really exciting. Right. This can be a really awesome time for you to rediscover who you are.

Christy (33:41):

Which I, I tell parents to go and join a club. Like get on a golf team, go play pickleball. Like find something that you're interested.

Lucas (33:51):

That was very specific.

Christy (33:52):

Well, pickle, do you understand that pickleball is taking over this country?

Lucas (33:55):

I did not know that for real. I didn't. I loved it in like high school when I played it in gym class.

Christy (33:59):

If you go around to any of the tennis courts in town, they're all, they've all taped them off to be pickleball courts.

Lucas (34:05):

Interesting.

Christy (34:05):

Yeah. I cannot believe that You don't know this. I it is sweeping the nation.

Lucas (34:10):

I have been under a rock apparently.

Christy (34:11):

<laugh> you have been <laugh> you have been. Um, but find something that you're interested, a sewing, a sewing club, something that that interests you go out and do that. Connect with people. Yeah. Figure out figure out

Lucas (34:22):

Travel. Go do things that you haven't been able to do because there's kids in the picture. Right. Like, this can be a really awesome moment for you to refocus on your relationships with your partner if you have one, relationships with friends with extended family. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it can also be a really awesome time to focus on relationships with your children in a different way. And a lot of families feel like their relationships greatly improve after this. Because that separation helps heal a lot because you're, because when you're, when you're a kid, you just can't leave. So you're always stuck with the person that's maybe being a little bit frustrating and now you have this ability to, to have that space and it just makes everything much happier overall. Finding fulfillment or focus on accomplishment on accomplishments that are in your kids too. Like you did it right. Like this is a, this is amazing. You have raised your kid to feel confident that they can leave your home and go be an adult. Like that was, you did it. Congrats. That's amazing.

Christy (35:27):

100%. I think the other part of it that we haven't really talked about is that there also are maybe parent-child relationships that have been strained. Yeah. Where for whatever reason they maybe haven't gotten along. And then you get into this life transition and it's like now they're, now they're adults and we still haven't, we still haven't figured out our relationship yet. And that can be also really stressful. I always tell people that it's never too late to, to try to reconnect. It's never too late to try. The worst thing you can do is try and get rejected by whichever way that goes. If you're, if you're the child who needs to reconnect the parent, if the parent needs to reconnect, whatever it is, just always try. Like, just swallow some of the maybe pride or resentment and if you want to have a relationship with somebody that is strained. And sometimes that happens when you go off to college and you figure out who you are and you like come back and you maybe wanna reconnect with old relationships or figure something out. 'cause it's, it's a lot of work carrying around resentment and negative feelings towards people and whatever. But this, those times can be really, really difficult on strained relationships.

Lucas (36:34):

Yeah. And on the, on the flip side, if it is not, like, if you feel like it would be healthier for you to not pursue those relationships anymore and maybe there needs to be a very firm boundary there. That's okay too. Yeah. But there's a really healthy way to do that. And if you're not sure how to do this or if you wanna make sure that you're doing it right, that is an awesome topic for therapy. And we, we've could, we would love to help you guys.

Christy (36:58):

I can tell other people how to set boundaries really well. <laugh>

Christy (37:03):

I'm so good at that. But I, but I know what to do. Right. And I can, you know, we can help people establish boundaries in a very effective and respectful manner. And I think for a long time, a lot of people think that boundaries are mean. Right? Like, if you set boundaries that you're being mean to people, it's like no, you're setting boundaries to protect yourself and to make sure that your mental health is where it needs to be. And sometimes that means that you realize that there are some people in your life that you've maybe outgrown. And that's okay.

Lucas (37:32):

That yes, it is very okay and very healthy. One thing that can be really easy to do, because when people are empty nesting, a lot of times they might have some feelings of, of mourning or grief, is to kind of sit in that and they kind of will sit in an empty house and not do anything. And it's really important that you stay busy. So fill that time with healthy hobbies. Or maybe there's a hobby you haven't tried yet, you've always wanted to. So go try it, like pickleball, <laugh>. Everybody go try pickleball. And we just, we don't want anybody to be sitting there and just staring at a wall. Or staring at old pictures if you need to do that in order to grieve in a healthy manner. That's different. I'm not saying that. Like, that's completely off limits all of the time. But like, we just don't want that to be all of the time.

Christy (38:23):

And talk to people. Talk to people that are, that are, that know you, that are, that you know, are supportive of you. I think that there's, I say that feelings are very valid, but I think a lot of people think that they, that they're not feeling the right way or that they should feel different or they get embarrassed about how they're feeling about something. And it's like, there, there is no reason to be embarrassed about the way that you feel ever. And if, and if you, again, a great topic for therapy. It doesn't, we've talked about this before, but it does not have to be an earth shattering bad thing that happens to lead you into a therapist's office if you need help transitioning by not having your kids in your house. That is a major therapeutic topic. Because I'll tell you what, if it goes unchecked, it grows into something.

Lucas (39:09):

It can become a catastrophic mental health issue.

Christy (39:11):

Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Lucas (39:13):

So it's a, it's a major transition. It's a major change, but changes are not necessarily endings. And so it's just things are different. It's not that everything ended. And so, but it can feel like it ended. Yeah. Like I'm no longer a parent anymore. You're always a parent. It's just that you're a different kind of parent now. You're a parent of adults. Which just looks different.

Christy (39:33):

Your kids have different needs as they grow older,

Lucas (39:35):

Which is exciting because you got them there.

Christy (39:37):

Right.

Lucas (39:38):

That's something to be celebrated.

Christy (39:40):

100%. Yee-haw,

Lucas (39:44):

I feel like a lot of parents would agree with me on this, but it takes a lot of passion to raise a child. And to do that. Especially to do it as well as you can. And it takes a lot of energy. And so when you don't have that anymore, it can feel like something is gone. That passion is still there and accessible. So let's put it towards something else. That could be maybe your a project that you wanna work on or pickleball, <laugh>

Lucas (40:15):

Joining a new community like Christy talked about earlier. Like a sewing club, right?

Christy (40:19):

Yeah. Start running. Right?

Lucas (40:20):

Oh yeah. Start running. Yeah. Just maybe you make that your new air quotes baby, and we're just really focused on that. Maybe it's traveling, maybe it's just trying something new.

Christy (40:32):

Golf.

Lucas (40:33):

Golf, whatever.

Christy (40:34):

Legos. I don't know. Anything.

Christy (40:36):

Who cares?

Lucas (40:37):

Does it make you happy? Great.

Christy (40:39):

Try it. <laugh>. Yeah. Let's do that thing.

Lucas (40:42):

So invest in yourself in this time. This is a really awesome opportunity and exciting time. Yeah. Or at least it can be.

Christy (40:50):

Well, and and you know what else is cool is like when your kids can see you thriving, that makes them feel really good too. And they can see you out doing things and having fun. And I mean, maybe they're like, uh, yo went to The Bahamas without me because that, that's also probably, that's probably also true <laugh>. But, but they like to see that, that you're out doing well and, and that you're, you're doing well without them in the house. Because granted, I'm an anxious child, but there is some guilt too that comes from like leaving your parents. That's like, oh my God, are they gonna be okay without me? <laugh> How are they ever gonna exist without me?

Lucas (41:24):

I have had so many conversations with freshmen in college that, uh, they're worried about their parents not being okay, that they're leaving because totally. Of how, of how passionate they are about being a parent. Or maybe they saw them crying a few times or they've expressed their sadness that they're gonna be alone and which is fine.

Christy (41:40):

Which is great.

Lucas (41:41):

Yes. That's okay to do.

Christy (41:42):

Express it.

Lucas (41:42):

Yeah. Yeah. That's absolutely okay. But it also makes them feel good when you're doing well.

Christy (41:47):

And it and alleviates some guilt that they have. They'll be like, oh my gosh, they're gonna be, they're they're nothing without me. Right. You know, and that's, it's so not true, but it, and it comes from a place of really caring about your parents, but yeah. It, for them to see you doing well is like so good for them too. Yeah.

Lucas (42:05):

Absolutely. So then there's everybody else who, so you're not a parent who has this, um, somebody going into college or transitioning into maybe an older school or you're not a student that's transitioning and it's just the weather is changing. Or it's just the summer is ending and that just, that just sucks.

Christy (42:23):

Plain and simple. <laugh>.

Lucas (42:25):

That can also be hard. And I don't want to, uh, diminish that or not talk about that.

Christy (42:29):

Absolutely not. I mean, how often do we say in the wintertime, because it's 97 years long. Yeah. I'm gonna do that in the summer. I'm gonna get that taken care of in the spring. I'm gonna get that taken care of during the summer. I'm gonna do that when I have more time. And then all of a sudden it's August and now we don't have time and you didn't get any of the things done that you wanted to get done.

Lucas (42:47):

I feel like you're calling me out right now, <laugh>.

Christy (42:49):

Well maybe myself too. You're right. But I think there's, there, it's really easy to get caught in. What didn't I get done this summer that I was thinking about doing all winter that I didn't end up doing? And that just causes, I mean that self-deprecation doesn't get us anywhere and it just kind of feeds the Depression beast. But I, I, I think that that's a very common thing for people to feel like I wanted to get all this stuff done in the summer and then didn't get it done. And you know what I say to that?

Lucas (43:14):

We're really good at saying there's always next year because we're Vikings fans, <laugh>.

Christy (43:18):

It's so true. Oh my gosh,

Lucas (43:21):

A really helpful thing for a lot of people that I've talked to is finding something that you enjoy about every season so that there's something to look forward to all of the time. Yeah. If, for a lot of people up here, I mean, North Dakota winters are just awful.

Christy (43:36):

They're not kind.

Lucas (43:37):

No. They're just, they, they suck and it gets really, really cold and it's to the point where it's almost dangerous to go outside at times. Or we have these crazy blizzards and so there's a lot of inside time, there's not a lot of time to go outside, but, and with that hobbies, the ability to do different hobbies kind of goes down and or to get energy out or whatever. And so trying to find different things maybe to try or to get excited about that you can maybe do inside or just differently will potentially help you feel better about those transitions. It granted, like I get excited about winter mainly because I really like playing board games and so that gives me an excuse to play more board games. Because in the summer I wanna go outside. I wanna go camping and traveling and all those things. So, um, I get really excited about that, but I like, I still don't like winter. But it's just one thing to focus on that makes it feel a little bit better.

Christy (44:34):

So I always, I get caught up on Netflix in the wintertime. Because I do not watch TV in the summer unless it's a summer Olympics. Because I love Summer Olympics, but I, I get caught up on all the shows that all my friends have watched <laugh> like all summer. And I was like, okay, I'm finally gonna catch up. Or I, reading books is also something that I'll do in the winter time. Or I mean, I have four books right now. All been recommended by friends and I haven't touched them. Do I feel a little guilt about that? I do. But I'll do it in the winter. But that's in my head, that's what I'm gonna do. I'll read 'em in the winter

Lucas (45:05):

And that makes sense.

Christy (45:06):

Because I don't have time. I don't have time. In the summer. <laugh>,

Lucas (45:09):

I know a lot of people are worried about every year the wintertime brings negative mood.. That seasonal affective disorder starts kicking in and it's, it can be really difficult and sometimes really scary for a lot of people and it's important that right now we focus on right now, I want, I would encourage everybody to be mindful and be really present in this moment so that we're not focusing on something that isn't happening yet. Let's not borrow worry. We don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know for a fact that that's going to happen this year. It might, and you know what? If it does, we survived it every other year. Right. So we're gonna do it again. But try not to get caught up on three months from now when we still do have summer left. Right. We still have some time, some time. Let's focus on today. And if that happens, not when. If that happens in the winter, we'll deal with that.

Christy (46:01):

And I think it's really important to check in with yourself. Which I, I think, I mean, journaling sounds so cliche, but it's so true. Especially if you're a person that really does go in to, if you know you have a seasonal pattern of your depression, check in with yourself every morning and say, okay, how am I feeling? How was my sleep? How are things? And and the second you feel like something is going the, the way that it, you can tell that it, that you don't want it to go, say something to somebody, say something to a coworker. Say something to a friend to be like, I don't know that this is anything, but this is happening. And I just, I just wanna keep an eye on it. I want you to keep an eye on it with me. Yeah. It's like, sweet. I'll do that.

Lucas (46:37):

Absolutely. As somebody who has a history of depression, I do that to Christy all the time. I will just, I don't know, just something feels off and I'm just like, just so you know, this happened today. I'm just letting you know so you can check on me later.

Christy (46:48):

Yours is usually sleep. You usually, because you are, you're a doer You like to get outta bed. And then when you're like, it is getting,

Lucas (46:56):

It's been a little hard to get outta bed lately. I slept in way too long today.

Christy (46:59):

Yeah. <laugh>,

Lucas (47:00):

Can you check on me in a week? Yeah. And a lot of times even just saying that and just like knowing that I have that support will lift that mood and a lot of times it's nothing. It was just an off day. Or an off week. And those are okay. They're not all red flags.

Christy (47:12):

Or your fiance left

Lucas (47:14):

Right. To go back to Canada. Gotta clarify. that. She didn't leave me. Yeah. Right.

Christy (47:19):

Sorry, <laugh>. Sorry. Yes.

Lucas (47:22):

So yeah, even just like sharing that with people can help alleviate the symptoms. Sure. And so not everything is a symptom. Not everything is, needs to be pathologized. Yeah. It could just be an off week, but just share it just in case.

Christy (47:35):

It goes back to talking man. I mean if you can talk, saying it out loud is very different than the circles that it does in your head. And it, and that's true with anything, no matter where we are, if you can say it out loud to somebody, it is amazing how it just kind of lifts off your shoulders. And a lot of times for therapy, that's what people need. They come in 'cause they just need to get it out, out of their head and out of their mouth. And then it just, it's is gonna sound really weird, but it just sounds different when you say it out loud. And you're able to look at it more objectively.

Lucas (48:05):

It does. One of the other things I tell people is, so how did we beat it last time? Because it wasn't just simply, well the sun started coming out again. Although that's a major aspect of it, but we're doing things, there's skills that you were doing to make it so that it wasn't as bad as it could have been. So start doing them. Right. In fact, never stop doing those skills by the way. But maybe start amping it up. So if it's making sure that you get exercise or that you're eating really well, let's start doing that early. And make sure that we are taking care of ourselves extra during that time so that it doesn't come back. Or if it starts coming back, we can catch it quicker and squash it.

Christy (48:42):

Morning meditations are huge. Setting an intention for the day is huge. The thing is you have to find the things that work for you. Yes. Because the things that work for other people aren't always gonna, there are a lot of people that don't get a lot of joy about, uh, waking up and working out <laugh>. Like it doesn't bring everybody joy. And meditating to me is really, really difficult. It's something that I have to work at really hard, but for some people that is, that's what they need and and that's, that's what energizes them. I, I want to be that I'm working toward it, but for some people that's what they need. For some people going out and spending time with their friends is really beneficial for other people. It's not. Find what works for you. And if you are having a hard time thinking of things to do, call a therapist. Because if there's one thing that we are well versed in, it is coping skills. <laugh>, <laugh>.

Lucas (49:31):

Annoyingly so.

Christy (49:32):

Ways to get out of a funk.

Lucas (49:34):

If we're describing you like every winter right now, like, please come in and come in earlier than when it starts hitting you again. Like, 'cause we can help you prevent it from even occurring. And there's also an aspect too of like check with your, uh, doctors and maybe they could run some blood tests to see if you are low on vitamin D. Yeah. A lot of us just naturally run low up here because of the lack of sunlight that we get and getting on some vitamin D supplements can be really helpful for a lot of people. So, or there's things called like SAD lights too. Make sure that you're doing that under the instruction of a doctor, however, don't just buy one off Amazon and use it <laugh> please. There's just a lot of things that we can do.

Christy (50:16):

Open up your windows, not the windows 'cause it's cold. But like the shades. Yes. You know. Let, let in some natural sunlight. The more natural sunlight. I mean we get v very small daytime hours in the winter. And so like you have to monopolize on the stuff that you got.

Lucas (50:32):

Absolutely.

Christy (50:33):

If the sun is out, open up your shades.

Lucas (50:35):

Go to work when it's dark, I come home when it's dark. We always want to encourage you to ask the question, is it just me? You're likely not alone and there is always a way to help. If anything we have talked about today resonates with you, please reach out.

Christy (50:46):

Do you have a topic you'd like us to talk about? Message us. We'd love to hear from you. Our email address is, isit justme@dakotaranch.org? Or you can just drop us a text message. Facebook message dm, carrier pigeon <laugh>.

Lucas (51:02):

Anything else?

Christy (51:03):

I think that's it.

Lucas (51:04):

Okay. And don't forget to share us with your friends and family.

Announcer (51:07):

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Is It Just Me? To learn more or make an appointment for psychiatric or mental health services at Dakota Family Services, go to dakotafamilyservices.org or call 1-800-201-6495.

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