Resources: Learn More

• “Helping Teens Who Cut,” by Michael Hollander, PhD
• “This Is Depression,” by Diane McIntosh

Things to Think About

• Sometimes signs of depression can be found in what kinds of media your child is reading or watching, such as books or TV shows focused around death.
• Depression doesn’t always show up as sadness in children and adolescents. It can also manifest as anger or irritability.

About the Hosts

Dr. Megan Spencer is a clinical psychologist at Dakota Family Services. She is passionate about working with individuals and their families and highly values the therapeutic relationship. Dr. Spencer enjoys helping people better understand themselves and their psychological functioning. She looks forward to working with anyone who is looking to better understand and/or improve themselves or their children and families. Her practice includes diagnostic and psychological evaluations and individual cognitive behavioral therapy.

April Morris, LCSW, provides therapy for adolescents and adults. She enjoys working with clients from all walks of life, and is honored to join them on their mental health journey and help them build skills to adapt to life challenges. She loves building relationships with people and is dedicated to helping them become their best selves.

Transcript
Recognizing Depression in Children & Adolescents (Community Chat Series)

Featuring Dr. Megan Spencer, Psychologist, and April Morris, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Tammy Noteboom:

Community chat recordings are presented by Dakota Family Services, an outpatient clinic with mental health providers in Minot and Fargo, North Dakota. Thank you for listening.

Randi Streff:

Alright. Well, thanks everyone for being here today with Dakota Family Services. We have Dr. Megan Spencer and April Morris, who both work out of our Fargo office, and they're gonna talk a little bit about depression in children and adolescents, knowing that sometimes it can be difficult for caregivers, parents, friends, things like that, to identify what depression looks like in children and adolescents. So they'll talk a little bit about some awareness things. It's ideas for interventions and just overall how to notice when children and adolescents are experiencing depression. So from there, I'll turn it over to Megan and April.

Megan Spencer:

So kind of our, our topic today is, is more focused specifically on depression in the kiddos and adolescents. So not focus on adults but very specific to the kiddos and teens. So I think it probably seems relevant that we just kind of start maybe more broad and talk about some things that, as parents and caregivers, you guys may notice. Right? So not necessarily in the clinical sense, but just kind of typical things that you guys as, as parents, caregivers or individuals may notice yourselves in terms of some of those kind of signs or symptoms that warrant a little more attention or could indicate depression in your child or teen. I always like to kind of start with the caveat that we all kind of have an idea of what depression can look like, right? We kind of get the typical TV media Eeyorewhich absolutely can be indicative of depression.

Megan Spencer:

But I think the other thing we like to talk about too is specifically with kiddos, it may not necessarily be that really depressed, sad mood, and it might really honestly be more of an irritable mood versuswhat we think of as sad or depressed mood. And so kiddos that, that could still indicate depression if it's not necessarily depressed, but far more irritable most of the day or, or nearly every day. The other thing too, I like to mention in kiddos is even with adolescents, sometimes they don't necessarily have the words to say, I'm feeling depressed. Right? But they may say, I feel sad, or I feel empty, or I feel mad all the time. Right? And it's not that they're angry, it could be that irritable piece. They just don't know how to put that into words. Or even with kiddos or teens. It could be more observable versus what's subjectively stated. So it could be more that they're just a lot more tearful. Right. Would definitely indicate some of those mood changes. Right. So tearfulness, bouts of crying, increased crying, that seems different than what has been previously the typical presentation,

April Morris:

I think too, like being less talkative. Maybe they normally like to talk about what they did today or tell you about their favorite game they're playing and now they're just not, or you ask questions, they're like, nah, I dunno. And so sometimes just when I was thinking about when you referenced Eeyore, I do like to use him as a reference because with him you can tell that there is some "okay," like tone and voice, but it can be confusing cuz he still participates.

April Morris:

He still goes with everybody. And, and with, sometimes with depression, you may pull back from activities that you like. So each of these symptoms or signs we're talking about, they don't have to all be present and to keep in mind that we're watching for at least a handful of them over a period of time. But like that low energy, tired change of motivation, participating in their usual fun activities or just pulling back less, or pulling back more, sorry, from friends or even family.

Megan Spencer:

And I think it could be, you know, that it's, right, it's kind of observing the behavior and the mood. So yes, we talked about kind of that mood being more sad, depressed, maybe the mood is more irritable. And, and that irritability, if you think about it, right, we all kind of have a fuse or a tank, right? And so if your kid or adolescent is struggling with depression, their fuse or that tank is gonna be a lot less. And so you might notice not just irritability, but then these kind of outbursts of anger or more significant frustration that weren't, that maybe had been present once in a while, but now seems to be more consistent. Maybe those outbursts aren't necessarily more frequency, but maybe the duration now seems to be lasting longer. Whereas your kiddo could kind of recover from getting frustrated or angry, say within, I don't know, 10, 20 minutes, but now it seems like that goes on for 40 or more.

Megan Spencer:

Or even they don't have the same ability to bring themselves back down to kind of that normal level of functioning. But then it also could be where your kiddo is, you know, expressive and right, we're human, so we're supposed to experience emotion, but it could be even that like their emotions or their expression seems to be very blunted or decreased, that it's almost that there's, there's no emotion, right? That they're kind of just neutral when typically they could be more excited and more happy about things and now that excitement and happiness is just decreased or non-existent.

April Morris:

But yeah, I guess if we continue Megan, where, where you were talking about with that flat or super expressive, I mean, we could be looking for either end of the spectrum and I think about the self-esteem and the comments too that I'm looking for. I can think about kids to say, "I'm not, I'm not good at anything. Nobody wants to play with me." Maybe there's some all or nothing, just really negative mindsets could lead us to, to wanna ask questions about, you know, how often they feel that way in particular areas that that's happening in.

Megan Spencer:

Totally. Or even maybe just, you know, talking about kind of feeling hopeless for school when they usually are pretty, you know, motivated or tend to be more positive or maybe making comments about how they're letting their friends down all the time. Where if they're playing sports and they're just feeling like, I'm, you know, I'm hopeless, it's, I'm never gonna get better at this and I'm letting my team, right? So it's, we're not just looking for, it's not just assuming that you're gonna notice very obvious mood changes or very obvious behavior change, that these could also be more subtle, but consistent, right? So it's what we keep kind of saying is a change and consistency. But the other thing I think I wanted to mention is also when we think about the Eeyore, this also brought up kind of your kiddo or adolescent that, you know, we think of anhedonia or a complete loss of interest in things that normally they enjoy, but maybe it's not so much a loss of interest, but you notice their ability to persevere or how they, how they seem on, say, on the soccer field, right?

Megan Spencer:

Or on the basketball court when they're usually full of energy and motivated and they're going after the ball and they're committed. You might notice just a kind of, just a change, not necessarily in the fact that they'll do it or not, but how they do it, if that makes sense.

April Morris:

Yep. No, that completely does. And that's a good point because we can't look at this as a "not there" or "all there" scenario. So it is tricky. I was thinking too about sleep and nutrition can be, can be big or can be subtle, you know, maybe they're starting to to sleep in more but still not rested. I know that can make a difference on how old they are, what's age appropriate sleep. Yep. But something to, to keep in mind may not be big and drastic. And then there is big and drastic where they don't wanna maybe get out of bed and, and do stuff and aren't excited to do stuff.

Megan Spencer:

And too, I think sometimes that big and drastic, that, actually that really is huge because I think sometimes even within ourselves, right, is that we, we don't notice the more subtle or small changes when we should, which then can eventually lead right to more significant issues. So I think really the just of this is, is don't always look for big huge changes or big, huge, you know, differences. It, they could be many smaller subtle things that it's, it's truthfully an awareness, right? It's not about being a therapist, a psychologist, it's truthfully more about awareness and recognizing that something is different and paying attention to how that is different and how long it's been different. I also think about physical stuff. So a lot of times, whether it's kiddos or adolescents, and we've talked about, maybe they don't have the words to explain it or maybe they don't, you know, totally understand their internal process. And so maybe this is coming out more in terms of physical complaints, like frequent body aches and pains, feeling like they, they just can't get their legs to move, right? They feel heavy, they feel weighted down. Maybe they're having, you know, headaches, stomach aches, but we, but also it could be, right, that manifestation into a more physical, physical complaint versus the mood or crying frequently or right. The things that we've kind of already mentioned. So I, there is also that piece too of the physical.

April Morris:

Yep. And I, you know, I think one of the symptoms we have left that we haven't talked about is the concentration. And I know that there can be overlap with other things, but again, if they just can't concentrate, whether it's loss of interest, the headaches, there's a lot of reasons why they maybe feel like they can't. But lack of concentration is, is something to, to keep an eye out for.

Megan Spencer:

And indecisiveness, I think that also sometimes we forget the piece of, you know, obviously kiddos and adolescents and aren't supposed to know exactly what they want and how they want it, but this can look like just even basic to what shoes they're gonna wear or what pants they're gonna wear when they're normally pretty, you know, quick or good about making decisions just on those very basic kind of, not higher order thinking, but just making basic decisions might start getting difficult for them. Or when they usually are given a couple choices at dinner and they can say, yep, I want this or no. And now it's kind of like, well I don't know what I want. I don't know what I feel like, I don't even know if I'm hungry right? It's, this can look so many different ways that it's, it's important to have that awareness. So yes, concentration, attention, difficulty, sometimes making decisions. It could also be, you know, when they're usually pretty focused, all of a sudden everything is distracting to them and they're getting frustrated when they're interrupted and right. It goes back to that fuse, that tank and that ability to tolerate what is happening in their environment versus, you know, home, school, at a friend's house. Those, those other pieces too. Definitely.

April Morris:

Well, and I think that kind of segues us into what all can create the symptoms and what's all going on and the causes if you will, but I guess different reasons why these things can occur, right? And so you're talking about environment and whether it's home or school, they're not feeling safe in that environment. They're not feeling comfortable. So whether it's the safety or comfort, our, our self-esteem is built out of our environment and depending on what is all occurring and, and being said and interpreted at home, how are we performing at school? Is, you know, school academics hard, are we having hard peer interactions? So all of these home and in school environment factors, these stressful factors can lead towards those depressive symptoms.

Megan Spencer:

Well, and we think like not feeling safe, right? And, and so when I hear that I, my brain is like, okay, I don't want people to go to like the worst case scenarios, right? Not feeling safe could just be, I got in a really big fight with one of my best friends and I'm just fearful that if I go back to school and interact with her, I'm gonna say something that's gonna make it worse. Right? So they have to think about safe in many ways too, and not just necessarily like our, our physical safety, but we have to think about that emotional piece. And then my brain goes straight to bullying, right? And not that all bullying is in many different forms, obviously, but even if it's not what we think of as really significant or severe, the perception of that kiddo and adolescent is really what is the most important versus what is the actual thing that's occurring or happening.

Megan Spencer:

So yes, that home-school environment, feeling safe, feeling comfortable, or even, even if it's not necessarily comfortable having the knowledge that there is a safe place to go within school or my teacher is a safe person to go to the environment clearly is, is a huge piece here. And then it's the relationships, not just with peers but relationships with siblings at home too. If you have a particular sibling that might be going through something, whether it's mental health or physical medical, that can also create an environment that might be stressful. Maybe it's, it's stressful because you're concerned about their health. Are they, are they gonna be okay? And so, right, we get, there's so many different things that this could entail when we say home environment, whether that's school, home, even a grandparent or a friend's, I mean this, that's a huge piece, but that relationship is part of the environment.

Megan Spencer:

And then if you think of stressful life events, right? Which kind of, yes, could this be a situation of bullying at school, right? Could it be repeated stressful events over time? Could it be one very significant or stressful event as perceived by that particular kiddo or adolescent? Yes. It doesn't have to be multiple things. It can be one thing that triggers a process within that individual that might lead to some of these things that we're talking about in terms of signs or symptoms and so stressful life events, oh gosh, I mean this goes lots of different ways. It could be they tried out for a sports team that they were really, really thought that they could make and they don't make it or they get cut. Or it could be that they have, you know, studied so hard for the, oh gosh, what are they now? Gres I think that I'm probably aging myself, but

April Morris:

The ACTs. <Laugh>

Megan Spencer:

You know, that they prepared so, so hard for that and they get their score back and it just devastates and it leads to the spiral, right? It could be that, I mean, their favorite teacher reprimands them one day and they take it very personal, I mean there could be so many different stressful life events of course. And then the obvious of, you know, maybe there's a fire at home or, or you know, some sort of flooding or a natural disaster. It, it could be that a parent has, you know, a medical condition where they're in the hospital or not even life threatening but still that they're removed from the home and they're going through a process of recovery.

April Morris:

And I'm just thinking like, you know, like how you clarified safety, it's like, you know, defining stressful. We just wanna make sure that we're not looking at just the big events. It's still their perception. It might just be that their friend wouldn't play with them all week. That led into, you know, it's not always bullying, it can be just a sequence of these other events that they find stressful.

Megan Spencer:

And then we have to think about not just physical illness of somebody in their life but their own physical illness. Just because their kiddos are adolescents doesn't make them immune from having different types of medical or, or even different types of pain issues. And honestly, there's, we think about growing pains, right? And I can remember in school, you know, shin splints from sports and I remember just having various, you know, body aches and pains from growing and yeah, although my perception was, oh this is temporary and yeah, this is just a part of growing, but that was my perception and maybe someone else can take those pains that are happening. And for some it can be a lot more severe than other kiddos and adolescents. So we have to then think even to some degree on normal growth and development, how that in and of itself could cause varying stressors and issues that could lead to kind of that spiral and the thought process and mood, obviously being in this part of the country, vitamin D. But to be honest, now that I'm looking at other research, even states that we would think have abundance of sunshine, they're finding that even those individuals are having some deficiencies in vitamin D too. Obviously not the sole cause but certainly relevant.

April Morris:

Yeah. And I think any of these physical conditions that we could use as examples just kind of go to, to speak to the way we assess for mental health. And we wanna make sure that people are staying on top of their, you know, primary care pediatrician visits talking about that growth and development, talking about symptoms that they're noticing to rule out medical physical medical conditions first because we wanna make sure there aren't thyroid conditions. We wanna make sure you know, that we don't have vitamin D or anemia issues cuz all of those things can look like depression with sleep problems and fatigue. And, and so we wanna make sure that we're looking at those and ruling those out first. And so it just kind of continues to support holistic all healthcare, mental health, physical health really do still need to continue to stay together.

Megan Spencer:

Too, and I think, you know, it's relevant also when we think about physical illness, even things that can be diagnosed in kiddos and adolescents but are manageable right? Could still lead to these types of, of mood fluctuation and behavior changes. So diabetes, right? We know that some kiddos and adolescents are diagnosed with type one diabetes fairly early and even though, right, it's 2022, we've got lots of information, we know lots of stuff for treatment and success, that still doesn't mean that that kiddo or adolescent who gets that diagnosis and has a great treatment plan that they still might not experience what these signs and symptoms are for the simple fact that this is something they're gonna have to deal with for the rest of their life, right? Yeah. What we think about epilepsy and seizures, again, not super common, but not super uncommon and we might think about this is again, like, yeah, we've got lots of knowledge, we've got lots of research, we've got lots of treatments, but that still again, doesn't mean that that kiddo adolescent is going someplace else in their head or, or thinking about things in a way that's, that's leading to mood and behavior changes.

Megan Spencer:

Even though it's something that can be treated and there's a great plan in terms of how it will be treated,

April Morris:

Definitely always consider that adjustment to any new diagnosis because that makes them potentially different from their peers and, and changes their capabilities at time of what they can and can't do. So definitely good to keep in mind. And I think what goes along with that physical assessment that we talked about is making sure that, you know, a medication isn't also causing some similar symptomsor worsening symptoms, you know, to keep your primary care provider in the loop onagain, as a rule out. And then there is always that typical are alcohol or drugs involved? That, that could be showing us these, these symptoms as well.

Megan Spencer:

And that can be a trickier one to have a conversation. I mean, kiddos I think obviously aren't immune from getting involved in some of these things, but when, you know, when we talk about alcohol and drugs, it certainly I think tends to be more common in the early teen adolescent years. And so I know for a fact that this is a topic that can be difficult for parents to talk with their kids and their teens about, right? So in all reality, yes, we know clearly drinking age is 21, but I think we're all aware that there is access far before that age as well as other types of substances. And so if we are noticing some of these signs or symptoms, right? We have to, as, as parents and caregivers do, not just awareness of what the signs and symptoms are, but kind of an, our own little quick and dirty assessment of what the heck is going on, right?

Megan Spencer:

So it's sitting down with your kid and saying, I understand you're, you know, you're in 10th grade, I get that there's a lot of stressors and things going on, but it's, it's really just being very explicit on asking, you know, have you, are you drinking right? Have you, have you tried marijuana or tried other drugs? Is that something that has been affecting you? Or, or right. It's, it's opening up that line of communication specifically as it relates to the alcohol or drugs. And even maybe before as just like a point of touching base with your adolescents is that, hey, you know, I know this stuff is available and I know it's out there, but let's talk about not just the fact that it's illegal, but how this could affect your mood and could affect your behavior and your friendships with peers, right? Is we have to take these conversations in as many directions as, as we can with these kiddos and adolescents because that's truthfully how they're gonna understand versus have their own preconceived ideas of what this stuff is and how it can be helpful versus not.

Megan Spencer:

I guess the, anything else on the alcohol or drugs or, I was gonna mention the, I think lastly we're all to some degree aware of the genetic piece. I always will always say though, genetics doesn't equal anything. Certain, certain psychiatric disorders have different genetic loadings, right? Where some tend to be more genetically inherited versus other, but even if you have a genetic history, it still does not mean, one, your kiddo has it, or two, that kiddo or adolescent will get it. But it, it really is just a point of awareness again and understanding that if that genetic component exists within your family, that it does statistically give a higher chance of developing that particular disorder. But that is in, in combination with these other things that we're talking about, environment support system, right? So the genetics is important to understand and be aware of, but it is not an equal.

April Morris:

And you know, obviously when we're talking about depression, you know, we, we need to touch on suicide and, and that's another hard topic, right? Sometimes asking or watching for suicidal ideation comments or behaviors. But it is super important that we do that. A lot of times you might see those, those comments about hopelessness. I'm, I'm never, or this is never gonna get better, I'm never gonna have any friends. It might start to, to actually lead to talking about suicide and making suicide comments, which we wanna take seriously and, and have conversations about it.

Megan Spencer:

The other thing too, I just thought of with that when you mentioned kind of that focus on death or dying, maybe it's there not, it's not so much verbal, but maybe in terms of art or things they're watching, whether it's movies, TV shows, the focus shifts, right? To more things about dying or death or not being on earth, right? So we have to think about that focus not just in verbal, but also could be in other ways such as artwork or writing, right? Some kiddos, adolescents love writing poems or writing stories and so, and then they'll share that, right? What is the content or how has that content shifted or changed in the direction of death or dying or suicide or not wanting to be around? So that was the other thing I kind of just thought of too, is not just verbal. This could be portrayed in a not obvious way.

April Morris:

Absolutely. And I, I can think of a 15 year old girl I was seeing and this, our conversation was hard to pull. She would say she, she felt hopeless and, and didn't wanna be here, but her art and her rewriting song lyrics, rewriting poems that she felt spoke to her were really insightful and gave me then direction on trying to clarify how much did she relate to some of these lines since she didn't have a lot of the words to describe how she was feeling. So yes, art, poetry stories, very relevant places for information.

Megan Spencer:

So engagement from caregivers parents, right? We can't just be engaged in what is verbal, what is obvious, but those secondary or not so obvious signs that could tell us what we need to know, just not in the way that we think we will know them. I think another one could, could kind of related to kind of that change in kind of behavior in a sense is, is giving away possessions or not all possessions, but maybe it's like one thing that they really love or they always hold onto or they, you know, has always been a source of comfort all of a sudden now they wanna give it to their best friend or their sibling, right? So again, it doesn't mean all of their possessions, right? It could be one or two very important things.

April Morris:

Any of these things that we're mentioning as far as suicidal comments or behavior are all just kind of should be taken as flags and more conversation and monitoring because it is tricky. They don't all have to be there, it be a variation of some of these things that we're talking about, but they definitely should raise a flag for more conversation.

Megan Spencer:

You know, and then I kind of just go back to that, the risk taking kind of self-destructive behavior. So when, when I, when I read or hear risk taking self-destructive behavior, that doesn't just mean alcohol or drugs, right? This could be totally different. This could be a kiddo or an adolescent who is usually quite thoughtful about who they talk with or thoughtful about, okay, well if I go to this friend's house and starts getting dark out, right? So it's, it could be really just a difference in not being thoughtful about their safety and, and just things that usually we don't think of. So even, you know, I think about situations that could be as it relates to sports or other types of, you know, where they're, you know, we think of self-destructive as like physically harmful, but self-destructive can also be emotionally harmful. So, we're, it kind of goes back to the anhedonia piece or, or you know, loss of interest in things, but maybe it's, it's also about removing themselves from the things that reward them. So it's not so much sports related, but it's usually when, you know, every Friday they get together with their friends and now they, you know, they don't wanna necessarily get together with their friends or they start being, you know, fighting more or nitpicking things and just getting in arguments and just being more destructive to their own relationships in that sense. If, if that, am I making sense?

April Morris:

Yeah, I can think of maybe a couple examples that could be helpful too. I have a guy that knew when he spent time with his roommate or if his roommate was around, he was less likely to engage in suicidal thoughts or behaviors. And so if he was really like, no, I'm, you know, I need to spend less time with him because I, you know, otherwise think that this is what I want. And it was just kind of interesting that they might try to separate themselves from friends or people that could change their mind, if you will. And of course we're trying to encourage them to stay around people that care about them cause it is a good reminder of why we might want to remain here and stay here.

Megan Spencer:

That makes me think too, even a change in friend group, right? To a tendency towards peers that are more destructive or engage in more, you know, risk taking behaviors, whether that be in school or out of school. And so write that change in your friend group, not necessarily removal of social activities, but a change in the ones you are spending time with.

April Morris:

And I had a girl that was really honest, like, well, I don't wear my seatbelt because it's kind of, it happens, it happens. And so she was by no means trying to prevent death but also not necessarily seeking it out. And that was just a really gray area for us to continue to work through.

Megan Spencer:

But I think that's a good example, right? Like these kind of more risk taking, destructive behaviors don't have to be as obvious all the time. It's just taking a second in time to think through what's, what your kiddo said, what they're doing, what's different. Obviously self-harm, right? This goes and, and so self-harm relates to, you know, things we directly ask about self-injurious behaviors, cutting, burning are some of the more obvious would be something to think about. Again, doesn't none of these equal anything they just warrant, right? Attention conversation, awareness,

April Morris:

Right? And just in, I know I'm usually the one watching time, Megan, we got about 10 minutes for all the stuff that we wanna talk about.

Megan Spencer:

Okay, <laugh>. So the only thing, other thing I wanna mention about suicide is the, the only other piece that I think isn't as common is the kind of sudden reversal, you know, when your kiddo they may already have been diagnosed with depression and they've been kind of in an episode, things have been pretty down and then all of a sudden kind of, it's not like a total change, but like there's just a reversal of that outward appearance, right? They might kind of all of a sudden just seem more upbeat or more motivated, but it was like, okay, but yesterday you were, you seemed, seemed this way, but it's just this outward reversal of what seemed so off compared to what was usual for the last few days or weeks. If that makes sense.

April Morris:

What about when we were talking about the different, and, and we didn't wanna get into a lot of detail, but relevant to mention, you know, with depression symptoms, you know a therapist or a medical provider is gonna be looking at, you know, is there a prolonged grief? Is it a grief reaction? Is it, you know, trauma? Is it seasonal depression? You know, we have different types of disorders that encompass depressive symptoms. So, you know, it's just important if you're recognizing any depressive type symptoms that you are reaching out to have it further assessed because we, we may not really knowuntil that happens.

Megan Spencer:

And kinda lastly briefly, I won't try to talk too much in depth, but I think it very much is relevant in terms of females and adolescents to mention the premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Those depression symptoms can be tied to the hormonal cycle, right? And so when we think about depression in terms of the menstrual cycle and hormones, these are gonna be some of the same signs and symptoms that we already talked about, but specifically occur the majority of the menstrual cycle, right? And then they start to improve within a few days and then become kind of minimal or absent after the period or the menstrual cycle has ended. Here's where we have these signs or symptoms, but very much more focused around the hormonal menstrual cycle versus unrelated. So that's just a piece I really wanted to make sure we mentioned because that I don't think is talked about as much, but absolutely that hormonal change in the menstrual cycle can cause legitimate depressive symptoms and episodes in a, in as it relates to the hormonal fluctuation.

April Morris:

Yep. Absolutely. And I like that you bring that up because I, I don't think it's diagnosed a lot and it, and I think it takes a little while to catch onto it. So I think we all should be kind of aware that that is a possibility. And just in general, a lot of our talk today right, is about looking for signs and symptoms and potential stressors and causes, but you know, most importantly it is gonna be can we talk to our kids about it? Can we, can we talk about emotions and just normalize periods of sadness, but also help weed out when it, it might be problematic and impacting areas of our life, right? Not getting stuff done at home, our social life, work, schoolI suppose teenagers include work, but all those areas and, and being able to kind of normalize getting help and support and what that support looks like.

Megan Spencer:

And I think the more that us as parents and caregivers normalize this, what, when we say normalize, we mean like, talk about it. Talk about that this isn't something that nobody experiences, that this is common and we're humans and we're supposed to experience changes in mood and feelings and emotions and stresses are natural. It's how we, right? So it's the awareness. It's having those conversations even when you don't think something is going on, but open that line of communication that's saying, Hey, here's, you know, here's what, here's what depression is. And I know, you know, we all struggle with sad and, and down moods, but if you're ever feeling like this or like that, please come talk to us, right? Or, hey, if you feel like you want some support, you wanna see the counselor at school, you wanna talk to somebody else, that's, that's okay. Right? Normalize means talk about it.

April Morris:

And I think to reiterate some things that maybe we've heard elsewhere, but helping make sure our kids get a healthy amount of sleep and nutrition and exercise impacts our mood. We know it can help with depression, keeping open conversations with primary care pediatricians and just reach out if you think it, it might warrant an assessment. I'd err on the side of caution and conversation then, you know, wait and wonder therapy and or medications, you know, can make depression treatable. So wanna make sure that We leave question time for you guys too. But did I miss anything?

Megan Spencer:

I don't think so. I think it normalized through conversation, talk about it, talk about options, whether you think there's a problem or not. That lots of, lots of kiddos, lots of adolescents, lots of adults see therapists, they, you know, sometimes it's frequent, sometimes it's not. It's, it's really, I think overall just providing an environment for which your kiddo and adolescent feels comfortable enough to say if something's going on or you've created the environment where you can bring that up to your kiddo and adolescent. The other piece I just thought of is, okay, when do you get help? You get help when you start noticing these signs or symptoms, when you start noticing that these changes have become more long standing, right? It's not a day or two and then they kind of snap out of it, right? This is like a week, two weeks, maybe there's a day change but it kind of falls back into those signs and symptoms that have been different. So when to get help, there's no right or wrong, it's, it's just if we are noticing a more consistent change and we've talked about it or we've tried to talk about it, that's there, that's kind of when right when you notice it, when it seems consistent, more endearing.

Randi Streff:

Well thanks everyone for being here. I think I just wanna say one thing really quick cause I think it's important as a parent, as a caregiver, as someone who might be with the kids here at the ranch or in any other sort of role where you're, you know, coaching or youth group or anything like that. As adults we're children's advocates and so if you ever feel like something is going on with kids, with a teen, with a child, with anything like that, just remember that they might not have someone they can talk to about it. So if you're a person in their life who they might be able to talk to, let them know that. Make sure that they know that

Megan Spencer:

That is a great point. Yeah. Open the door, right? Allow the door to be open for if they choose to walk through it.

Randi Streff:

Yeah. Oh, thanks everyone for being here. Have a great weekend and hopefully we'll see you next time.

Tammy Noteboom:

Thank you for listening to this Community chat presented by Dakota Family Services. To make an appointment with one of our mental health providers or to learn other ways to mind your mind, go to Dakota family services.org.

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