About the Hosts

Christy Wilkie provides therapy for children and adolescents, ages 5-25, who have complex behavioral health issues. She combines her extensive clinical expertise with a belief in kids, and has a unique ability to find and develop their strengths. She works hard to be an ideal therapist for her clients, doing what is best to fit their needs.

Lucas Mitzel provides therapy for children, adolescents, and adults, ages 5 - 30. He believes building relationships with clients is the most important piece of successful therapy. He loves what he does because it allows him to walk next to people he would never have met had he chosen a different profession, as they work to make amazing life changes. He has the honor of meeting people at their worst, all while watching them grow into the people they’ve always wanted to be.

Transcript
Therapy Unveiled: What to Know Before You Go

Featuring Christy Wilkie, LCSW, and Lucas Mitzel, LCSW, Dakota Family Services

Announcer (00:00):

This episode of, is It Just Me, is brought to you by Dakota Family Services, your trusted partner in mental and behavioral health, whether you need in-person or virtual care, the team of professionals at Dakota Family Services is dedicated to supporting children, adolescents, and adults in their journey to better mental health,

Christy (00:21):

Disrupting life patterns and life routines that aren't serving you.

Lucas (00:26):

It's how we feel that keeps us going.

Christy (00:29):

You can be a masterpiece and a work of art all at the same time.

Lucas (00:39):

Hey everyone, I'm Lucas.

Christy (00:40):

And I'm Christy.

Lucas (00:40):

And you're listening to the, is It Just Me podcast

Christy (00:43):

Where we aim to provide education, decrease the stigma and expel some myths around mental health.

Lucas (00:48):

Kristy, is it just me or a starting therapy? Really scary.

Christy (00:51):

Well, I'm a therapist, so I'm gonna go with no <laugh> <laugh>, but I do know that for a lot of people it is very scary. Yes.

Lucas (01:00):

And I think there's a lot of things that make it scary for people, including things like, there's a lot of stigma around therapy and just mental health in general. Yeah. I think a lot of people will consider or have considered themselves weak for needing to come to therapy. Yeah. Or they think that they're maybe broken. Yeah. What are some things that you've heard people say

Christy (01:18):

That they didn't know If they would like the therapist, that they weren't sure if their insurance would cover it, and they didn't know who to ask to see if their insurance would cover it, that they're going to have to do some work that's really hard to do and think about some memories that are kind of difficult and they weren't sure if they were able to handle those things. There's a number of reasons. I mean, we say all of the time that the hardest thing about therapy is starting it.

Lucas (01:43):

Absolutely. The first session is always the hardest. Right.

Christy (01:46):

Getting your foot in your get, just get your foot in the door. Yep.

Lucas (01:48):

Yeah. Another thing that people are worried about is what's gonna be brought up. Right. because if you have any knowledge of therapy or have heard of people going through therapy, you know that sometimes when you're digging around in your brain, there's gonna be stuff that you were maybe you forgot about or you just weren't aware of that's gonna pop up. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and the unknown is terrifying. It's,

Christy (02:08):

It is, it is completely terrifying. But it doesn't have to be because I mean, how many times do, do people say, I, I just, I don't, I don't know if I can do this or I don't know what's gonna come outta my head.

Lucas (02:20):

Yeah. Yeah.

Christy (02:21):

I mean, we get that all the time.

Lucas (02:23):

Absolutely. all the time. Another one that I hear, I actually just heard this one today Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, is that you fear that your problems aren't that bad. Yeah. And you're worried that you're taking up a spot from somebody else who might need it more.

Christy (02:35):

Yep. That happens all the time, and I think we've probably talked about this in other podcasts, but when you're so used to existing in a certain way, like if, let's just say you're anxious because we all know that I relate to that. Well, let's just say that you're an anxious person. Right. And until somebody tells you that that's what it is, or that it can be different, you don't really know that it, that you, your life could be really different. It could be way less anxiety producing. Yeah. If you, if you go, but when you, or when you live depressed all the time, a lot of times people don't even know that that's what it is, and so they just don't prioritize themselves to bring it, to get help for it. But that is something I hear all the time too, where it's like, I'm sure you have people with way bigger issues than I do. No,

Lucas (03:16):

Yeah. You're,

Christy (03:17):

You're, you're the one in my office. Yeah. And so your, your issues are, that's what's important.

Lucas (03:22):

Absolutely. You are the biggest issue that I'm dealing with right now. So

Christy (03:25):

Ab 100%.

Lucas (03:25):

And I love that we're dealing with that. Yeah.

Christy (03:27):

<Laugh>, let's

Lucas (03:29):

Go. Yep. I think that going along with that too, that a lot of people when when they're for so long, they don't realize that it, that they've been living life on hard mode. Yeah. And when you hear somebody say, when they're talking about something like perhaps being anxious <laugh> and how much they worry about something or whatever, and then they, somebody says like, you know, you don't have to feel like that when you go like that. Or you notice that other people aren't feeling the same way Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> about certain subjects. Right. That can kind of be like a, a red flag that pop up and say like, am I abnormal <laugh>? Or is that, is that abnormal? And you start asking questions and the, I mean, the answer is like, you, you don't have to live life on hard mode. Right. It, it can be easier. People

Christy (04:11):

Are more likely, adults are more likely in general to get help for their children before they get help for themselves. Yep. I mean, we see that all the time. And so parents will bring their kids in, especially now, like this generation that's coming through, like mental health has gotten to be way less of a, oh my god, you are going to therapy. Right. Like, what's wrong with you? Like this new generation, I think like us as adults are like, we're gonna get these kids the help that we really needed. Probably Yeah. <Laugh> when we were that age. But what happens is that you get these kids that come in and they're talking about symptomology and the things that are going on, and you kind of start providing some psychoeducation to the parent about, and the child about what's happening. And you can see the parents go, oh, do you think that maybe I have that? Of like, yeah. I mean it's, there's a lot of genetics <laugh> Yeah. That come into mental health. And so then getting help for their kids has kind of gotten people to get help for themselves, which is really cool. But like you as an adult are worthy of getting help. Mm-Hmm.

Lucas (05:13):

<Affirmative>

Christy (05:13):

Because you need it.

Lucas (05:15):

Absolutely. Yeah. Or parents who, they're talking about their kids' symptoms. And when we start attaching a label to that such as anxiety or a DH ADHD or things like that, and then they're like, I was a lot like them. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> as a kid. And it's like, you don't say Yeah. Like you can also talk to somebody and feel better. Right.

Christy (05:32):

And then this is the other part of where the stigma comes in. Right. Because they're like, well, I was like that as a kid and look at me, I'm fine now. Yeah. Like, I made it through like everybody else should make it through. Life is not about making it through.

Lucas (05:44):

Right.

Christy (05:44):

<Laugh> like that is not the bar. The bar is not just trudge on through life, you know? Yeah.

Lucas (05:51):

It doesn't have to be this hard. Right.

Christy (05:53):

Right.

Lucas (05:53):

We, you can I say that all the time?

Christy (05:55):

You can enjoy the journey of this life that we're, that we're given. It doesn't, it doesn't have to be a battle.

Lucas (06:01):

Right. I'll never forget a little bit of self-disclosure here. I'll never forget the very first time that my anxiety meds kicked in. Yeah. And how for the first time I woke up and I wasn't nauseous. Like I, I didn't feel like something bad was gonna happen that day. Right. And I had never felt like that. Ever. Right. And I think I cried <laugh>, like it was so freeing. Yikes. To like, and I was so happy, like just going through the day and just not a worry in the world. You're right. Like whatever happens is gonna happen. Yeah. And that's fine. Right. Because I'll make it. It's so weird.

Christy (06:34):

We got this. Yeah, we got it. It's interesting 'cause you say you do to yourself what our clients do to us where you don't give yourself the credit for the work that you do Yeah. To manage your anxiety. You said, my meds kicked in and it was great. It's like, okay, Lucas, but also you're probably doing some significant work to make, you know, this is also true build coping skills. Yeah. Like, people are just so, and me, medication is great. That is great, but medication and therapy together is the best.

Lucas (07:01):

Absolutely. Yep.

Christy (07:01):

But a lot of times people will discount the work that they're doing and just be like, it's the meds that are doing all of it. Yeah. And it's like, no, you are doing some significant work. Yeah. So don't downplay that

Lucas (07:12):

Ab meds make it easier, but you have to do the work. Right. Yeah. So how do people, like, what do you tell people when you're talking to somebody outside of the office about how do you start looking for a therapist?

Christy (07:22):

Yeah. I mean, I think the easiest thing that people do is just like Google therapy Fargo <laugh>. And then they see what comes up and they start going through websites and going through and, and looking at, I tell 'em to look at all the profiles. First of all though, you have to know like what it is that you wanna get help for, because that determines the, the therapist that you're, that you're gonna see. 'cause Like if you want to work on PTSD and you, and you wanna do EMDR, which is then you have to like find somebody who's certified in that sort of a thing. Yep. If you've got, if you've got trauma, you're looking for a trauma therapist, look for something that says trauma therapist on their, that's something that they, that they do. Therapists are really good or their organizations are really good in our case about writing bios. Yeah. That highlight the things that, that you like to take. If you're an adult, don't look for somebody who's doing play therapy, you know? Right. So just to kind of go through websites and click around and, and find somebody that you kind of jive with Yeah. That you think, oh, this might be good for

Lucas (08:18):

Me. Absolutely. And there's a, a lot of times, like with the bios, you can find people who maybe have similar interests Yeah. And, and stuff. And the reason that we share those things on our bios is so that people can relate with us because relationships are the num, like that is the most important part of therapy. Mm-Hmm. If you don't connect with your therapist on a relational level, you're not going to make any progress because you're not gonna feel comfortable talking about things, and you're not gonna feel comfortable when they challenge you on something or trust them Right. When they're telling you something. And, and that's really, really important. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So reading those bios, figuring out what kind of people they are, what they like to do, is really important. Another really great tool is to just ask other people around you. Yeah. If you trust a friend of yours and they're like, Hey, my therapist is awesome. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, or this agency is really awesome, then that's probably a great place to start. Right. And I think that that's where a lot of our referrals come from is other people Yeah. Referring out to their friends and be like, Hey, my friend so and so sees you and that's why I'm here. Right. So it's super

Christy (09:17):

Cool. It's the culture. It's the culture of our Yeah. The culture of our clinic. We are really laid back <laugh>. We are, we're I think, I think we're funny. I think that we are

Lucas (09:26):

Yeah. <Laugh>

Christy (09:27):

<Laugh>. But it's just, there's some places that you walk into knowing just get a vibe. Yeah. And, and I mean, I love the vibe of, of our agency. It's great. But if you, you can go into a place and sort of feel the vibe. Yeah. But to your point, like if anybody's ever been in my office, there's a lot of stuff in there. There's a lot of stuff.

Lucas (09:46):

There's a lot of stuff <laugh>.

Christy (09:47):

Yeah. And, and the reason that I have that in there is because it's very rare that I'm, there's gonna be, there's not something in there that someone's gonna connect with somewhere along the line. Yeah. Right. Where they're like, oh, you're a Vikings fan. Yeah, I am. You like music. Yeah, I do. And then it kind of starts a conversation and there's some self-disclosure that kind of puts people at ease. Yeah. So yeah. Finding, finding someone that's got something in common great.

Lucas (10:10):

It is, it's awesome. And it's really important. One thing that is difficult to do, but a lot of people I think should do it more, is therapy shopping. Oh,

Christy (10:19):

I love it when people do that. Yeah. And, and I love it when they're honest about it. What

Lucas (10:22):

Is it <laugh>

Christy (10:23):

Therapy shopping is going around and, and I mean, honestly interviewing therapists to see if they're a good fit for you.

Lucas (10:28):

Exactly.

Christy (10:29):

And I, I think people think that that's not something that, that they should do. And I don't know why.

Lucas (10:34):

Well, I think people this is my theory. I think people are worried about hurting another person's feelings. Like Yeah. Hurting the therapist's feelings. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, we don't care. No. We just want you to get better. Yeah. So if you're seeing me for a session, you're like, ah, I just, I'm not really sure that that was, we were vibing or whatever. Yeah. And if you are like, I'm gonna try somebody else, go for it. Please do. Please do. As long as you are feeling better and you feel like you can trust the person you're talking to, that's great. I'm so happy for you. Yeah. If you choose for that person to be me, I am honored. Yeah. It does not have to be though.

Christy (11:03):

No, because hard mode, it doesn't. It, you don't have to trudge through therapy either.

Lucas (11:08):

You shouldn't be trudging through therapy.

Christy (11:10):

Right. You should not be trudging through. If I, at the end of the day, we say this all the time, I wish that I didn't. I I wish that there wasn't a need for my job. Yeah. Right. I wish everybody was mentally healthy. I wish everybody felt like the best version of themselves every day. That's just not the case. Yep. And that's fine. But anybody, I, I just want anybody to feel better and I don't care. I will call other people for you. I'll make you a referral. Yeah. I'll say, you know what, I know that I know this person and I know they're really good at this. Let's, let's try them out. Want me to give 'em a call? I will hold your hand and help you find a therapist if I'm not it, because it is, we just want people to feel better.

Lucas (11:47):

Yeah. And we're not all great at every single thing. No. And we all just like in every other position in the world, like we have our strengths, we have our weaknesses. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And some of us are really good at very specific diagnoses or treatment modalities. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so we want you to get the best. And so a good therapist is gonna refer out right. To those people to make sure that you are getting better and getting what you need. Yeah.

Christy (12:11):

100%.

Lucas (12:12):

So when it comes to finding a therapist, so like you found one that you wanna try Baba <laugh>, what should I expect in the first session?

Christy (12:22):

That's a good question.

Lucas (12:23):

I'm full of those.

Christy (12:24):

You are <laugh>. I love that. I will say it depends if you are an adult or if you're an adult bringing a child or if you're an, or if you're an adolescent who is willingly going on their own. Right? Yeah. I mean, all of those situations in my head are different. If you're an adult bringing a small child, we'll bring the parent in first and kind of explain, you know, this is what we're doing. You explain the limits of confidentiality. You kind of get a, Hey, tell me about what brought you in today. And give me an, an overview of what's happening. Yeah. Like what, what got you in the door. And then I'll typically spend some one-on-one time with the child and kind of get to know them and build rapport. And then bring the parent back in at the end and be like, okay, so this is, this is kind of what I'm thinking. This is the, this is our plan going forward. Are you on board with that? Because consent is cool.

Lucas (13:08):

Yep. <Laugh>.

Christy (13:09):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. We want parents to make sure that they know exactly what's happening and that there is a method to the madness. Yep. You know and make sure that they feel comfortable with, with how the session went. And I'll, I'll ask for feedback and be like, is there anything that you're concerned about? Anything that we need to go forward? And I guess every session kind of looks like that. It's just with, with an adult or if you're an adolescent that's just coming in on your own, you just do the same thing, but without a parent. Right. But if you want a parent to come in with you, cool.

Lucas (13:37):

Totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. Totally fine. You are the boss in your session. Yep. So Im just guiding it. But you're in charge, so if you don't wanna do something, if you don't wanna talk about something, you just tell me. Right. And we're, we're done. Yep. Talking about that, we'll move on to something else. Yep.

Christy (13:50):

We'll probably come back to

Lucas (13:51):

It later. I mean, we will <laugh>, but <laugh> that's a different thing. Yeah. And that first session is really important for us just to get information, but for you to see what our style is like. 'cause Every therapist has their own individual style of how they run a therapy session. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I'm a very laid back type of person, and my therapy approach shows that. Yeah. I, I'm not like, I don't even know how to describe it right now, but like, I, I'm just very easygoing in how I talk about things. I use a lot of slang words. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. I will, I love to laugh in my That's so important to me that Yeah. And I'll make lots and lots of jokes and they're all funny. I promise <laugh>

Christy (14:28):

They aren't <laugh>, but, but the a for effort

Lucas (14:31):

Yeah. With kids, we play lots of games because I love to have fun and games are an awesome tool Yeah. To help people open up. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. If you're an adult and you wanna play a game, I'm totally down <laugh>. It doesn't happen as often. Unfortunately, <laugh>, but <laugh> lame. Right. But then you might meet with somebody else who is maybe a little bit more, for lack of a better, I don't like that, that I'm about to say this word, but sterile. Sure. like more of like a doctor office sort of thing. Yeah. Where it's very just matter of fact, and this is what we're doing, this is what's next. Yeah.

Christy (15:01):

Checking the

Lucas (15:02):

Boxes. Yeah. Some people really like that. Yeah. And that's totally fine. Yep. I am not that. Yep. So if you're looking for that, that's not me. No. But there's a person for everyone. Right.

Christy (15:10):

So I think that goes to a lot of people don't know about modalities. Modalities is simply what type of therapy we're using when you come into our office. Right. I am largely cognitive behavioral therapist. I wanna know what's going on in your head and I wanna help you see it in a different way. Yep. But there are manualized therapies that some people really like, where it's like, this is session one, day one, this is what you do. Session two, day two, this is what you do. And for some diagnoses and for some people that is great. Yeah. DBT is kind of that way. Yeah. You know, which is dialectic behavioral therapy,

Lucas (15:41):

Which is something I'm trained in. Yes.

Christy (15:43):

And so you just kind of have to decide it if that's what you want. If you want a manualized style. 'cause Some people not gonna throw the type a's under the bus, but some people are a little bit more type A. Right. And they, and that's what they need to see. They need to see what the thing is. Other people are just like, I'm just gonna come in and we're gonna have a relational sort of tone and, and kind of talk about what's going on. Yeah.

Lucas (16:01):

You know, a lot of trauma based therapies are very structured. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that way. E-M-D-R-T-F-C-B-T, things like that. Exposure therapy can also be very structured as well. Yeah. And so if you're looking for trauma work, a lot of times it's gonna be that way. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It doesn't have to be, but like EMDR specifically tends to be pretty structured. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And TF CCB T is supposed to be very structured. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> as well. Although I've seen it done not like as type A Right. As it could be. Yeah. <Laugh>. Yeah. So

Christy (16:30):

Oh, I think, I think too, because I have a lot of tools in my tool belt, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, like, I'm, I'm trained in all sorts of things. And so if, if you jive with me as a pers like as a personality, and then you're telling me that you want it to be more like manualized where this is what we do, and you wanna see that I can do that. Right. And I think that that's something that you would need to talk with your therapist about too, to be like, I really like your vibe, but this is kind of what I'm hoping to get outta therapy. Tell them that.

Lucas (16:57):

Please tell us that. Yeah.

Christy (16:58):

Because the therapist can either be like, yeah, I can, I know how to do that. I've got that tool in my tool belt. Should we go that way? Cool. Or I can be like, you know what? I'm not trained in that modality, but I know, I know Lucas is, or I know Fallon is, I know April is, I know somebody in this clinic is trained something. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Because that's kind of, that's 'cause everybody here is trained in all sorts of things. Yeah. But you just have to communicate with your therapist what you're wanting to get out of it. Which I think is super important.

Lucas (17:22):

It's incredibly, I love when my clients will tell me like, Hey, I just, I wanna redirect our focus here. I know that I opened up with this, but I really want to talk about this. Yeah. Instead. Awesome. Love that <laugh>. Love that for us. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. Or I know we've been focusing a lot on this, but can we work on some skill building today? Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it so I can, it's our job to mold to you. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> not for you to mold to us. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I once had a, a client come in and tell me that they had a therapist tell them that they suck at therapy, as in the client is bad at therapy. Oh, that's not a thing. No, you can't be bad at it. Nope.

Christy (18:01):

<Laugh>.

Lucas (18:01):

So it's our job to make it a good experience. Right. And so if you're feeling like you're not great at it, that could be a sign that maybe we need to look at someone else. Or you need to at the very least, have a conversation with your therapist Yeah.

Christy (18:16):

About that. Which brings something else in mind that I've had a lot of people say, I don't know what I, I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. You don't have to know what you're gonna talk about because that's my job. Right. We're gonna figure out what you're gonna talk about. And <laugh>, every time somebody will come in and be like, God, I don't really think I have a lot, I don't have much to talk about today. And then an hour later we could have, we could be spending another hour together. <Laugh>. Yeah.

Lucas (18:39):

All

Christy (18:39):

The time. 'cause There's, because there's, there's always something to talk about. Always.

Lucas (18:42):

Yeah. We're like trained how to ask questions to make people talk. Right. So we're gonna find something. Yeah. And even if that's like you, a lot of people think that they have to come to therapy only if there's a problem. Yeah. But you don't, if things are going really well, I wanna talk with you about how to keep it going well then. Right. Like, that's an exciting session for me. Yeah. So let's do that then. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And let's celebrate together because you're being awesome.

Christy (19:08):

Right. And that, that's actually a phase of treatment maintenance. Yep. I mean, that is a thing. Like there's some people that are cool coming in once every two months, and then if something comes up they wanna get in sooner. Cool. We'll figure that out. I think the other thing is that people think there has to be like an event that occurred, right. That is, that warrants them going to therapy. Yep. Right. There doesn't have to be a huge event. You don't have to go through something particularly traumatic in order to benefit from therapy. I think everybody should be in therapy. Yes. You say that all the time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because it's, it's helpful to have an objective person to be like, Ugh, let's maybe look at that a little differently. Yeah. You know, but there, and, and some and anxiety just hangs out. Right. Depression just hangs out. Like it's just there. And there doesn't have to be a huge thing that brings it out. Like, if you aren't feeling 100% or you think you can feel better, let's give it a shot, you know?

Lucas (20:04):

Yeah. If you're just not sure what's going on, like, let us help you figure that out. Right. If it's not mental health related, we'll let you know. Right. <laugh>,

Lucas (20:13):

I just had this conversation with somebody yesterday where they were, they were asking if some symptoms they were having was mental health related. So we just, we talked about it, we tried to figure it out. We made lists and tried to like tie things together and we feel like it's not mental health related. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so now they're going to a doctor to go and try and figure some stuff out. Yeah. It was great. But you don't have to have all the answers. Like, that's the point of therapy is to come in and we will help you figure that out. We may not know right away either. No. But we're gonna team up and figure it out together. <Laugh>.

Christy (20:41):

Yeah. So if I don't know, then we'll, I'll find somebody that does. Yeah. You know? We'll, we, we are relentless in our pursuit of Yes. Making people a realize that they're worth it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you are worth doing this work. You deserve to have a better life. And figuring out what it is that's causing the distress.

Lucas (20:57):

Yeah, absolutely. So after the first session, then when you, I call it an interrogation, sometimes <laugh>, because I, I feel like that's what I'm doing. Yeah. A lot of times it's, it can be a very structured as to how we're gonna do it, but also like when you get down to like fi 5, 6, 7 sessions in or something like that, it's pretty laid back. Yeah. Like it's, it's whatever we're needing to continue to, to work on. Or like if you come in and you're like, I just gotta talk about what happened yesterday. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like, cool. Let's do it. Yeah. And many times, I would say most of the time we, we tie it, it's all tied together. Yeah. Right. Like, and it's going to, we're really good at taking something that maybe seems unrelated and then tying it back to some skills that we've been working on.

Lucas (21:41):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> or a new skill. I think some people get annoyed at that at times. <Laugh>. but everything is related. And so you, like we were just talking about, you don't have to like come with this big plan as to what you're gonna talk about. You can, I have people who come in with notebooks and be like, oh, I have to, we gotta talk about this, this, and this today. Which is awesome. I love it. Yep. And then I have people who are just, they sit down and like, I don't know. Yeah. So, and we figure it out. Yeah.

Christy (22:05):

But we should say that first, that first session is called a diagnostic assessment. Right. And the reason it's called that is because we are assessing what's going on to give you a diagnosis

Lucas (22:15):

That sounds scary. It

Christy (22:17):

Right, it does sound, it does sound scary. And it's not because your symptoms are your symptoms no matter what. No matter what we, we call them, it's just, it gives, it gives us a framework to be like, this is kind of what we're dealing with. Has anybody put it in this context for you before? And a lot of times as, as scary as it maybe sounds, I found that most people find it extraordinarily validating. Yeah. To be like, oh my, I, this, that is what I have. Like, I feel that, and it's like, you're not alone. It's not just you <laugh>, <laugh>, you know, it's a lot of people and they, they find some relief in that to be like, oh, okay. I can deal with that. Yeah. When you can name it. We've talked about how in important it is to name something. 'cause You can't do anything with it until you name it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Then you can finally, it's, there's like this feeling of control that you have over something that was controlling you before.

Lucas (23:07):

Right. Your symptoms are probably way more normal than you think in, in the context of whatever it's called. Right. And I've never been surprised by like a thought or a feeling when it's in the context of whatever. Like an anxious thoughts can be a little weird. Yeah. But when you think about it in the context of an anxious thought, like Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Christy (23:28):

Or depress depressive thoughts. Yeah. People who are traumatized. The stuff that comes along with, with that. Yeah. I mean it all, and I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of shame people have in some of the thoughts that they have or some of the things that they feel and shame is a, it's one of, it's one of the hardest emotions to work, work through, but it's so important to understand that you can have, you can have that emotion of shame and you can move through it. It doesn't have to stick around. Right. You know? And so it's like normalizing weird thoughts, <laugh>. Right.

Lucas (23:58):

We all have 'em. It's like,

Christy (23:59):

Yeah, that's weird. But let's, let's unpack that. Let's see where, let's see where that one's coming from. Yeah.

Lucas (24:04):

And it's, yeah. It's not as scary as it sounds. And I think I speak for a lot of people, a lot of clinicians when I say this, but I'm not a huge fan of diagnosis. No. And that I really dislike how we are forced to diagnose on the very first session. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that's just so that we can get it covered right. By your insurance. But it's just a, it's just a name. Right.

Christy (24:24):

And it's a working document.

Lucas (24:26):

Right. It can change, you know

Christy (24:27):

Yeah. When we get to know you better or you disclose more things that you maybe weren't comfortable disclosing in a first session, which Okay. Makes sense. Because you're sitting in a room with a complete stranger for the most part. And we're asking you about some of the most difficult thoughts and things that have ever happened to you in your life. <Laugh> you maybe don't wanna spill all the beans on the first, on the first session and Understood. Yeah. But kind of as we work through things together and we get to know each other better and you get a better idea of what's going on with you and how to, how to put words to some of the things that you're feeling and some of the thoughts you're having, there can be things that come up from that.

Lucas (25:00):

Yeah. And if you think you have an idea as to what's going on, share that. Right. You're the expert of you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, like, you know, better than anybody, what's going on with your body and your brain? So, Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, if you have an idea of what that might be called, like Yeah. Let's look at it. Let's see if it matches anything. Yeah. It's my job to help you interpret that and make it make sense. Right. So, and

Christy (25:18):

This is a great time, I suppose to, for a plug for psychological testing. Yeah. We have a brilliant psychologist that works for us. Dr. Spencer, if there is a question about a diagnose, a diagnosis, or if you just really want to make sure that, that you know what you're talking, like, you know what's going on, we can refer you to our psychologist and she'll do psych testing and that it comes up with a beautiful report, <laugh>, that kind of says, this is what it is and it it is great. And she's great. And that is always an option if you want something that's more, what do you call it?

Lucas (25:50):

Comprehensive. Yeah.

Christy (25:51):

There you go. Yeah. Thank

Lucas (25:52):

You. I got you. <Laugh> <laugh>. It's, I like to look at it as a roadmap. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And it kind of just points us in the direction as to where we need to go. It helps us understand the brain and gives us a very clear path as to what we need to do and how we do it. Right. For example, with like IQ testing, if you have a higher visual score, that means that you are a visual learner perhaps. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And so maybe talking it just plain talking is not the best way to handle that, but we wouldn't necessarily know that unless we had psych testing. Right. So it can be extremely helpful. 100%. And it's, it is not, I think psych testing is also kind of scary to think about. Yeah. And it's really not.

Christy (26:30):

It's not. And I was thinking about that the other day because this is what we do every day. Right. You know, so it just seems So this is just what, it's not scary. Yeah. I mean, people come in all the time, they get stuff done, whatever. And I think it's easy to forget how daunting it can feel to start something that takes care of your mental health. Yeah. Because if you come in here, it's just normal stuff. We're just all here trying to get better <laugh> and trying to help other people get better. And so it's not, when it's something that you live in every day, it becomes, in my head, it's just so accessible. Yeah. When it's not your everyday life. I can understand how it could be like, oh my gosh, that sounds like a lot of work. Yeah. But we help you through all of that. We've got, our front desk staff are fantastic.

Lucas (27:13):

They're phenomenal. We love them. We

Christy (27:15):

Love them. Doug is our sound guy. He's back there smiling. <Laugh> <laugh>, but they're so good and they'll take such good care of you. We've got the Nicole who gets the referrals and she reaches out to people and she's amazing. Yep. And they do everything they can to make people feel at ease and make it, make it as easy as possible to get the services you need. Yep. And I think most, and I I just talking about our clinic, because that's, 'cause I've been here for 20 years and so that's all I know. <Laugh>, <laugh>. But I'm assuming that other clinics are very similar.

Lucas (27:43):

I Yeah. I think that one thing that comes up a lot or I've heard a lot is they're scared. Like if you have suicidal ideation, for example, people are scared if they come in and express that they're going to immediately be hospitalized. Yeah. And that is not the case. No. We only hospitalize people or, or ask people to go to a hospital as a last resort. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I want to underline and bold that Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> because we don't like sending people to hospitals. No. It's not fun. No. And a lot of times doesn't doesn't always make it better. Yeah. and so the only time that we would ever do that is if we really feel like if you don't, you're dead. Yeah. To be blunt. Yeah. That's, so if you come in and you have a history of that or you're currently dealing with that, it does not mean that you're going to be hospitalized. No. So don't be worried about that. And if it is to a point where you are feeling like if you did say something that you actually would be, 'cause it is that dangerous, you should probably just go there now. Right? Yeah. Honestly.

Christy (28:43):

Yeah. No, that's, that is something that we get all the time and I feel like people hold back some of the thoughts that they have for that very reason without realizing that if you, if you tell me that that's what's going on in your head, we can do a lot of work in that hour Yeah. To help you see that differently and to make sure you have the supports in, in line with what you need and to safety plan and to do all of those things. I mean, it is, it's, there's a whole, there's all sorts of things we do, but we plan with you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It's not like a, I'm calling the ambulance and having you committed like that. I think that No. Yeah. That, that's like, that's how it's portrayed sometimes in like Yeah. The movies or whatever. That's not how it happens. Right?

Lucas (29:21):

Yep. Yep. At

Christy (29:22):

All

Lucas (29:22):

<Laugh>. Right.

Christy (29:23):

So tell us what you're thinking please.

Lucas (29:25):

Because we want you to feel better.

Christy (29:26):

We can only help you if you know exactly where you're at. Yeah.

Lucas (29:29):

And that one is like, like Christie said, we, we can help with that. And I think also on along the same lines, self-harm Yeah. Comes up a lot with that same thing. I have never wanted somebody hospitalized for self-harm No. In the history of ever. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I think Christie is the same way. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that is. Yeah. So don't worry about that. If you struggle with self-harm, I just wanna know about it so we can talk about it. Right. There's no shame.

Christy (29:53):

And it comes back to symptomology. Right. Right. So it's, I mean, self-harm is a symptom of something else. Yeah. It's not necessarily, in fact, most of the time it is not an indication that someone wants to die. It's, that's, this is not <laugh>. Yep. But it is scary when if somebody that you love is doing that, it's, it's not, it's a maladaptive coping skill that people have come up with. But we can help you understand that behavior in the context of your diagnosis and then give you skills to help you get that same relief that you're getting in whatever maladaptive way you're doing it in a way that's healthy and effective.

Lucas (30:27):

Right. And one, so this is why one of the many reasons that therapy is really important. You might have a friend or a family member who's been through therapy, has been through similar experiences and so that they're sharing their skills or things that worked for them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And they might work for you, they might not. Right. And it is our job as a therapist to help tailor skills for you Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> so that they work for you. Right. And so that they are effective for you. Other people who aren't trained in that don't know how to do that. And so they're just going to, as best they can, just share what works for them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that can feel invalidating, that can feel hard sometimes. So it is our job to help you do that in a way that is effective. So please let us know. Because

Christy (31:08):

It also sucks if you're, if if you've got somebody who's going through something similar and they're like, this worked for me and you try it and then it doesn't work for you. Right. Like, it just increases the hopelessness that's like, well, it fixed that person <laugh>, why is it not helping me? It's like, well, because that's not the skill for you. Right. There are approximately 1,727,000 skills.

Lucas (31:30):

I saw you adding it up that Yeah, it

Christy (31:31):

Was, see, I'm the nerd with the statistics today. <Laugh>. There are, there's a

Lucas (31:37):

Million. I'm just joking. You can't add

Christy (31:38):

<Laugh>. That's actually, I'm a social worker. Doc <laugh>, we know that. It's like our license is like, social worker can't do math. Right.

Lucas (31:46):

Don't ask don't ask to do math.

Christy (31:48):

But yeah. There are so many coping skills and they're so specific to every person. It's like an easy one to think about is music. Yeah. As we think, we think about music and everyone's like, listen to classical soothing music and that's, and that will make you feel better. It's like, no, if you are not a person that loves classical music, it's just gonna make you more angry.

Lucas (32:07):

Right. Nails on a chalkboard.

Christy (32:09):

Right. But listen to something that you enjoy listening to that brings you joy. If screamo music brings you joy, get after it. Yep. You know, I'm gonna throw on some Noah Khan and call it good.

Lucas (32:20):

Same <laugh> obsessed, by the way,

Christy (32:22):

But like, I don't Yeah. Shout out to Noah <laugh> saving souls every day, that guy. Yeah. I think he is. But yeah, it's, it's the same with coping skills. If, if I tell someone who doesn't enjoy golfing to go out and golf and that will help relieve some stress. No, it won't. Right. You are going to be mad at me <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Because it's probably the most frustrating game on the face of the planet.

Lucas (32:43):

Yeah, absolutely. It is. So

Christy (32:44):

Yeah. It's, it's finding something that's tailored to you.

Lucas (32:47):

Yeah. So then how do we get the most outta therapy as a client?

Christy (32:51):

Number one, tell us what you're thinking. Yeah. Please tell us what's going on. And it's, it's so interesting to me, the things that people don't think are a big deal.

Lucas (33:01):

Yeah.

Christy (33:01):

You know, that they'll, we're like in session eight and they're like, oh, I never, I didn't tell you that this happened when I was 12. No, you didn't. But thanks, thank you. That add some context to what Right. What we're doing here. I just, I think people, people you get so comfortable living your own life that you don't recognize the things in your life that are significant. And so any detail, anything that you can remember, if you've got a memory of it, it's significant. Whether it's good or bad or otherwise, because that's, most of our memories live there. We remember the really good things, remember the really bad things, the eh days. Right. Relatively unremarkable. But being very forthcoming with what you wanna get out of it, how you wanna do that and what's going on. That's beautiful.

Lucas (33:46):

Yep. I think for the first, I mean, especially for the first session, we kind of already talked about this, but just coming with an idea of what you want to improve. You don't have to have the perfect words for it. I, you don't need to have a name for it, but just like, I want to, even just coming with and saying, I would like to just not worry as much. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Or like, I really struggle with relationships. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> sometimes or I just can't, I feel like I'm angry all the time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that is more than enough Yeah. For us to, to jump on. Yeah. So, and then we're going to start interrogating you, as I say, to try and piece apart what it is that's causing that. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And we're gonna ask you questions that maybe you've never thought of or maybe that seem weird sometimes. Yeah. But there's, there's, we're just, there's always a plan Yeah. In our heads as to where we're going and maybe some ideas. What's

Christy (34:33):

One of the weirdest questions you ask? I'm so curious. 'cause I ask a lot of weird questions in diagnostic assessments sometimes. One of 'em that I is, I always ask if people are a picky eater.

Lucas (34:42):

I Yep. I ask that too because

Christy (34:44):

Anxiety. Yep.

Lucas (34:45):

I will often ask people, I always get a weird look, especially from kids be like, so when you go to, when you lay down and you're like, okay, now I'm trying to fall asleep, how long does it take you? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then I always have to clarify, I'm not asking for a specific number. I'm just like, do you feel like it's a long time? And they're like, well no. And they're like, okay, so when you fall asleep, do you wake up at night and they're like, what is going on? And then when it's time to wake up, does it take you a long time to wake up? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I'm screening for sleep disturbances. Right. Which could be tied to a lot of different issues. Right. But depending on where the sleep disturbance arrives and then why it arrives. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and what's going on during that means a different thing. Mm-Hmm.

Christy (35:19):

<Affirmative>. The other, the other go-to question I have is, is let's just say someone texts you and it just says, call me. Oh

Lucas (35:26):

Yeah.

Christy (35:27):

What's your response?

Lucas (35:28):

I am very anxious and I'm calling them immediately.

Christy (35:30):

Right, exactly. Something, something bad happened. Yeah. I mean that that's where my brain goes all the time. Anytime somebody is like, oh my God, I'm getting fired, <laugh>. Yeah.

Lucas (35:38):

We need

Christy (35:39):

To talk. Yeah. We need to. That's another one. We need to

Lucas (35:41):

Talk. I can't even fire you and you'd think I'm firing you.

Christy (35:42):

Right. And then there's people that don't have anxiety or trauma in that way and they're just like, I would think that I should call them when I get some time. Yeah. I'm like, okay, perfect. Good for you, <laugh>. But there are some weird questions that we ask that

Lucas (35:56):

It's oh, another really weird one is do you ever have thoughts that are similar to you're driving down the road, you go over a bridge and then you're like, man, I could just like yank the wheel over and go over this bridge and die. Yeah. Some people have, if there's people out there that have this, that are listening, they're like, oh man. Yeah. That happens to me all the time. And then other people are like, what are you talking about <laugh>? Yeah. And so, and those are just intrusive, passive suicidal thoughts, which we've talked about in a previous, previous episode, but Yep.

Christy (36:22):

All sorts of fun

Lucas (36:23):

Questions. Yeah. We, it's, it can get weird in there, but there's

Christy (36:25):

A method to

Lucas (36:25):

The madness. There is. And sometimes I'm just asking questions just to get to know you. Yeah. And to figure out what kind of person you are. Figure out what we have in common. 'cause I also would like to connect with you as well. Yeah. So I will ask you things like what do you do for fun? Yeah. which is a dual, there's two purposes for that. Number one, I'm trying to see what hobbies you have, see if I can relate to anything. But also trying to see if you even have any and to see if

Christy (36:45):

They're

Lucas (36:46):

Healthy. And see if they're healthy. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause If you tell me that you go work out, I'm like, oh, well how often do you work out? Well, like five times a day. <Laugh>, that's too many times. Too many times. <Laugh> too many times. Why are we doing that? Yeah. <Laugh>. Right. So just what we all, the only thing we ask of you is that you're, you're open, you're honest with us and you're authentic. Yeah. Just be yourself. Yeah. Do not worry about giving me the wrong answer. There is no wrong answer. There isn't one. As long as it's your truth. That's all I care about. Mm-Hmm.

Christy (37:13):

<Affirmative>. Now sometimes those things that you say we'll kind of take and be like, can we look at that in a different way? Yeah. Because that's literally what therapy is. Right? It's taking all of all of those thoughts that you have that are not serving you, that are actually increasing your anxiety or increasing your depression and being like, let's put our game down, flip it and reverse it and see if we can, let's see if we can see that in a different way.

Lucas (37:34):

Yeah. And that could be, I mean, there's a million ways to do that. Mm-Hmm. Depending on what the question is, but could be as simple as would you think that way if I don't know, your mom said that to you or your partner or whatever, would you still hold them to that same standard? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Or even as simple as did you, do you hear yourself when you talk Right. Sometimes like, did you hear that come out of your mouth? Because

Christy (37:55):

I'm gonna say it back to you. Right. And then you tell me, you tell me if it sounded the same way to you that it did when I heard it. Right. Yeah. <Laugh>,

Lucas (38:05):

One thing I think a lot of people get worried about is that we're gonna judge you. Oh yeah. And that's not our job. No. We are not here to judge you. We're here to help you. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there is nothing that you could tell me that I'm gonna judge you for

Christy (38:15):

Or be surprised about

Lucas (38:16):

Or be surprised about,

Christy (38:17):

Like nothing. When I say nothing. Yeah. Like nothing.

Lucas (38:22):

I may never have heard that specific sentence before <laugh>, but it's not gonna shock me that it came out of your mouth. Right. Yeah. And we've heard some things. Yeah. So

Christy (38:29):

We've heard, we've heard a lot of things because, because humans are all interesting and they're all individual and they're all their own thing. Like, I wanna know you as this person. Yeah. It's, there's nothing, there's nothing that could come outta your mouth that would, I'd be like, Ugh. You David <laugh>.

Lucas (38:48):

Nice reference. Yes. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. you know, I, and so if you are, I think one thing that we should probably talk about before we wrap up here is how to know when you need to start therapy. Sure. And we talked about it a little bit, but I want to just reemphasize anytime you're feeling off Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> anytime. Just something you feel wrong or you feel uncomfortable or you just don't like how things are going. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> come talk to someone. Yeah. It could, it doesn't have to be a life event like Christie had mentioned. It could be anything. Yeah. It could be just that school's really hard or you're under a lot of stress right now, which to a lot of people seems like very minor, but it's not. No,

Christy (39:24):

It's not. And the thing about it, it's, it's not a lifelong commitment. It's not a prison sentence. I say that to people all the time. Like, therapy's not a prison sentence. And if you come in during a stressful event or something that's going on, and we can help you work through it and give you skills, you can utilize those same skills when something else stressful happens because life is long and things happen and it's not always gonna be butterflies and rainbows, it's just not. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I would love, I would love to give and guarantee everybody a problem free life, but that's just not happening. Right. I always say too, if you've, if you've had the thought, I wonder if I should go to therapy, then you should

Lucas (40:02):

<Laugh>.

Christy (40:02):

Yes. You know <laugh> Yes. If you've ever Googled therapist town you live in Yeah. You should probably like follow through with that and make the next click and find somebody. Yeah.

Lucas (40:13):

Yeah. If you're considering therapy for your children, if again, if you have the thought go Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But if there's any change in behavior Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> at all, that could be a sign that maybe therapy is something to look at if there's a struggle in any area. Right. Try it out.

Christy (40:26):

Just on that note, I think that parents are afraid of being judged as being a bad parent if their kid has to go to therapy. Yeah. No, you can be an excellent parent and have kids who need to be, to have therapeutic resources. Great. Parents have kids who, who need therapy. Right. There's nothing wrong with that.

Lucas (40:45):

Absolutely. Is it a sign that you're a bad parent if you took your child to the doctor? Right. No, it's not. That's a, that's a good parent. That's a good parent. Yeah. So same thing with therapy. Yeah. If your child needs mental health services, bringing them to therapy is a sign that you're a good caring parent. Right. So do it. And

Christy (41:00):

Honestly, those diagnostic assessments are helping figure out what's going on with their kid can be so validating for parents too. Yeah. I mean, the relief that you can see on their faces sometimes when you're like, this is what's going on and we can do something about it. Yeah. Just instilling a bit of hope is a game changer. Yeah. And can, and even just getting therapy for your child is gonna be good therapy for you, <laugh>.

Lucas (41:21):

Right. We, every, every therapist has their own way of doing this, but I think Christie and I have a very similar approach where I will oftentimes get an update from the family and figure out what's going on for that week, how things have been going, how, where we're at on goals. Then I meet with the kiddo for the vast majority of the time. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then afterwards I will meet with just the family Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And give them an update, give them some skills that they can work on, maybe share some of the skills that we worked on so that they can help generalize that into their life. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then also answer any questions that they have. Right. 'cause Parents have questions too. They do. Parents want parenting tips and I want to give 'em Yeah. So if you have any question, just ask that. Yeah. If you're not, if you don't feel like you're currently getting enough information from your child's therapist, ask for it.

Christy (42:04):

Right. Knowing full well though that children have confidentiality too. Yes. And so anything that I'm gonna share with a parent, I always run by the kid to make sure that they're okay with that because they're allowed to come in and, and disclose things about what's happening to them at school or wherever that they don't want their parents to know about. And that we take that responsibility very seriously.

Lucas (42:27):

Absolutely. Yeah.

Christy (42:28):

But we will always make sure that you have what you need to parent your kid effectively.

Lucas (42:33):

Yeah. Anything. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we always want to encourage you to ask the question, is it just me? You're likely not alone. And there's always a way to help. If anything we have talked about today resonates with you, please reach out.

Christy (42:43):

Do you have a topic you'd like us to talk about? Message us. We'd love to hear from you. Shoot us a dm. Our email address is, is it just me@dakotaranch.org. I've gotten some great ideas from some friends Yeah. And family members and it's been so awesome. So keep 'em coming.

Lucas (43:00):

And don't forget to share us with your friends and family.

Announcer (43:02):

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Is It Just Me? To learn more or make an appointment for psychiatric or mental health services at Dakota Family Services, go to dakota family services.org or call 1 802 0 1 64 95.

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